Talking trolling, Shin-Soo Choo, the Tigers and off-season baseball with Boney – WFNY Podcast – 2013-12-03
December 4, 20132013 In-Season Cleveland Browns Fan Survey
December 4, 2013Will Marcus Mariota be the next Andrew Luck or Matt Barkley? Will he move up the ranks of his peers or will any potential warts shine brighter? While this is all filed under To Be Determined, we can say with the utmost certainty that the 6-foot-4-inch former Heisman hopeful who blends size with quickness and the panache needed to be on the cover of national magazines will not be a member of the Cleveland Browns. At least when it comes to 2014, anyway.
You see, Mariota, likely staring down the barrel of the woeful teams who would be looking to make him their franchise savior (coupled with the fact that his rĂ©sumĂ© has taken a bit of a hit as of late), has decided to return to Eugene, Oregon for his senior season. Not only would this provide the 20-year-old with the fortunes that come complimentary with another year as the Big Man on Campus, it allows him to get his name back into the Heisman ranks, a place his name was almost engraved before a knee injury has forced his otherwise spectacular statistical output to take a bit of a dip. In his last four games — including losses to the BCS-busting Stanford Cardinal and Gildan New Mexico Bowl-bound Arizona Wildcats — Mariota has completed less than 60% of his attempts twice, tossed his only four interceptions on the year and accounted for only 71 rushing yards on 25 carries. Forced into a roll as a pocket passer, Mariota has shown that he—despite likely having been the first quarterback taken in this spring’s draft—has plenty of work to in order to improve areas of his game that do not involve his legs. He has gone from being the object of desire of draft analyzing Browns fans and radio talk show hosts to simply unattainable, all without the awkward moments of contrition.
“It is an honor to be a student at the University of Oregon and to have the opportunity to represent our institution on the football field alongside my teammates,” Mariota said of his decision through a university news release. “I look forward to earning my degree next year and to the rest of my career at this great University.”
Mariota’s move may soon be replicated by fellow left-coaster Brett Hundley, who is considering returning to UCLA after the university made a six-year commitment to head coach Jim Mora. As these decisions loom large, the Cleveland Browns, one of the handful of teams looking to find their quarterback of the future, will continue to see a dwindling list of would-be heroes. For what seemed like an eternity, the decision had boiled down to Teddy or Tajh1, the Louisville quarterback who provides the prototypical blend of height, weight and top-end speed (the adult film star name is just a bonus), or the fearless kid from Clemson who spurned Ohio State at the last minute, using his arm strength and bulk to make up for what he lacks in ideal height. But as the season has unfolded and fans have realized that they are, in fact, not draft analysts, we’ve seen Boyd’s name slide down the ranks, leapfrogged by such laureates as Central Florida’s Blake Bortles, LSU’s Zach Mettenberger, and Fresno State’s Derek Carr, the last of which is the brother of former No. 1 draft selection David.
To lend some insight as to how these football hurlers compare to other positions, Bridgewater, presently the top name on most lists, is slotted in as the eighth-best player overall. Mettenberger, presently ranked fifth among quarterbacks by draftnik Todd McShay, is ranked 49th overall, well outside of the first round of the NFL Draft. Everyone’s favorite reigning Heisman winner, Texas A&M’s Johnny Manziel, is ranked third among quarterbacks, but 20th when it comes to the entire slate of draftable players.
The Cleveland Browns have a glaring need. It is to a point where fans would be thrilled with a year that produces a record of 8-8, the most mediocre of outcomes. A half-dozen regimes have attempted to find the key piece to get the Browns to that level and beyond, some via free agency, others via the draft. The current regime has made it evident that they will be obtaining their savior through the latter of the two options, preferring a young player whom they feel can best fit the system that is currently in place. We’re told that, after several moves which have netted draft selections for the coming spring, it will be at this moment, this very weekend, when the franchise finally has a quarterback to lead them into prominence, if not mere relevance among peers. Thoughts are that the first-round selection acquired from the Indianapolis Colts (for running back Trent Richardson) will be utilized as means to move up from their given draft selection2 to select the player who will finally change the franchise.
But as Mariota returns to the plush confines of Oregon’s training facility, preferring to duke it out with Florida State’s Jameis Winston for the top spot in 2015, it is becoming more and more evident that the Browns simply have a gift certificate that can only be used on a question mark, a mystery bag of athletic prowess which may or may not translate at the next level. Not that Mariota was a no-doubt selection the way Luck was two seasons ago, but his shear availability ensured that at least one more quarterback would be there for the having.
With the 2013 Draft Class being listed among the worst for quarterbacks in recent history, it appears that the NFL is entering a bizarre, NBA-like run where the top-end quality simply isn’t there at the most integral of positions. It also just so happens to be during a period where the perennially poor Browns are looking to resurrect a once-proud franchise.
Sure, there is an undeniable potential for one of the quarterbacks who will be selected in May’s draft to far surpass any expectations. After watching this past Monday night’s contest between the playoff-bound New Orleans Saints and the near-perfect Seattle Seahawks, both teams led by quarterbacks who were not selected in the first round of their respective drafts who are now among the best in the entire NFL, it is wholly possible that there is value to be had. But as more and more teams gamble on finding the most important piece to their billion-dollar puzzle, first-round pick after first-round pick will be used on what amounts to hope. Sure, analysis will be involved, Pro Days will be attended. But in a year where the 49th-best prospect could sneak his way into the first round simply due to the position he plays, it’s tough to have any modicum of faith that all of the Browns’ questions will be answered in what is shaping up to be an offseason of epic importance3.
- Yes, there’s an H in his name, and it comes after the J. Just so we’re clear. [↩]
- Presently, the Browns are drafting eighth…behind sure-fire quarterback selectors like Houston, Jacksonville, Tampa Bay and Minnesota. [↩]
- For what it’s worth, I’m all about Manziel. Polarizing and what not, but the kid has incredible levels of competitiveness and leadership and can extend plays with his legs. Short? Sure. Also worth noting: I’m not a scout nor a member of a personnel department. [↩]
63 Comments
If you need to feel better about Mariota going back to school, go watch so Derek Carr highlights. Has a rocket for an arm and throws accurately in all levels of the defense. Most scouts write him up as being comparable to Tony Romo; mobile and elusive when he needs to be, but mostly relies on his arm to get the job done. Compared to the QB play the Browns have had over the last decade plus, I’d take a Romo-caliber player any day.
“despite likely having been the first quarterback taken in this spring’s draft”
According to whom?
I heard McShay say that on Mike & Mike this morning, IIRC
Todd McShay’s entire column from last night hinged on Mariota potentially being No. 1.
Potentially =/= Likely
Christ, people.
“I think that if he had decided to leave, he would have been the first quarterback taken.”
He also referenced Mariota as the No. 1 overall pick, not just QB. That’s pretty damn likely.
I’m glad we’re all focusing on, you know, the actual subject.
Thanks for footnote #3 Scott. I was beginning to think I was the only supporter.
Manziel or McCaron with the Colts pick.
This doesn’t make me feel better at all. If anything, it’s worse. If Carr was the guy, there would be a better chance at getting him if Mariota was available. This isn’t about wanting Mariota. It’s about wanting a franchise-altering quarterback. The list shrinks.
More civility.
What was uncivil about that?
While the shrinking pool does hurt our prospects, the fact that the Browns keep losing is definitely playing in our favor. At this rate, the team will finish with most likely the 4th – 6th pick. Right not there are a handful of teams currently picking ahead of us that will take QBs (Houston, Jacksonville, Minnesota, St. Louis?); including us, that’s 5 total.
There are 4 QBs that I’d consider first round-worthy in this year’s draft: Bridgewater, Hundley, Manziel, Carr. That just means we need at least 1 team to fall in love with either Anthony Barr or Jadeveon Clowney (two possibly franchise-changing defensive players) and pass on a QB. I could certainly see Jacksonville and St. Louis doing that.
My two word, three symbol response to your comment does not indicate my focus in the article.
Simply pointing out that you said Todd McShay’s column “hinged on Mariota potentially being No. 1” and that potentially does not equate to likely.
Plus, there are many more opinions than Todd McShay’s, almost all of which still maintain that Teddy Bridgewater is the likely No. 1. That’s the general consensus at this time.
I highly, highly doubt Manziel makes it to the Colts pick. He’ll likely go in the top 10. Too many QB-needy teams that don’t buy the media-driven narrative bemoaning his lifestyle choices.
I will be surprised if Bortles doesn’t go late in the 1st round. Boyd could go there (despite his disappointing year). Someone also might panic a bit and take Fales there as well (or McCarron I guess, but I don’t get the fascination with him).
You were being civil.
I don’t think we will be able to get Carr. His stock has been rising fast, and now that this mother flipper stayed in college, it depletes the possibilities. The teams ahead of us in the Draft (and desperate need for QB) Jacks-Y, Hou-M/Y, Atl-N, Minn-Y, StL N*Trade Possible (from Was), Oak-Y, TB-M/N. So 3 Deff Yes, there goes Hund, Bridge, and probably Carr, with a few maybe’s in there.
Nits, picked.
McCarron is the next Alex Smith. He’s an effective game manager; won’t win you any games but certainly won’t lose you any either. He’d be perfect for a team that already has all of the other pieces except for QB (I’m looking at you, Houston). Going from Bama to the Texans would be a minor transition for him, since they’re both built the same way: great O-line, elite defense that will give you extra possessions, and a stellar running game to take pressure off the passing game.
I’ve watched only 2 Fresno St. games this year, but Carr was very impressive. From what I saw in those games I liked his quick decisions, quick release, and accuracy. I’ll support any of the picks, but so far I’m rooting for Carr.
Did you see the San Jose St. v Fresno St. game not to long ago? Both Fales and Carr threw for over 500 yards and 5 TDs. While Fales looked better in that game, Carr has by far been consistently better this year.
Just responding to your comment. Your comment-side manner is rather off-putting, to be honest.
Yes. I think Fales is back on some peoples radar. I believe he was expected to be a first round pick after this year when the college football season started.
For sure. WalterFootball had him going top 5 I believe in some of their first mocks for 2014.
If it gets to our pick and those top 4 QBs are gone, I wouldn’t be opposed to waiting until round 2 and then grabbing Fales. Then use our two first rounders to pickup a CB and a WR and go from there.
Am I the only one that looks at the entire list of the “best” QBs available and simply says “no thanks – pass”?
There’s nobody I look at on that list and see “franchise altering QB.” Oh, sure, we can talk ourselves into any of those guys, but that’s just it – do we want another QB that we need to “talk ourselves into?”
Maybe I’m crazy, but to my mind almost all of these guys translate to average at best – and don’t we already have an average (albeit currently hurt) QB on the roster? I’m not saying someone like Hoyer is a franchise QB, I’m just saying we shouldn’t mortgage the future for one of a bunch of guys that we’re all “eh” about (Does anyone have us being worse than 6-6 if Hoyer doesn’t get hurt?). And let’s be honest with ourselves – we live in a league where Ponder, Gabbert and Weeden were considered “1st round picks.” If you want anyone on that list, you need to be prepared to trade both 1st round picks and probably an additional pick or two somewhere, and I’d challenge anyone to point where any of those guys on the list are worth that much ransom (not to mention the entire league knows the Browns are desperate, so the price will be high).
I’m almost prepared to say screw it – take our #1 and get the most talented non-QB position of need, shop the Colts pick for a 2015#1 and change, see if we can hit some mid-round talent, and let Hoyer take a swing at 2014. Emphasis on almost – that’s borderline on being the “too long” view.
There’s no good answers here…any of these options are a total crapshoot.
Because I think focusing on one word (out of 1100) while ignoring the topic at hand is a giant waste of time? Guilty as charged.
From our longstanding policy on comments: “WFNY encourages any and all discussion about all published material. We maintain the feeling that all comments should be constructive as well as relevant to topics therein.”
No, it’s because instead of acknowledging my well-established and easily verifiable point that Mariota was never the likely No. 1 pick, you bemoaned the notion that anyone would care about such a thing and continue pretending like that’s what I’m focusing on.
I read your article, found it mostly agreeable, came to the comments, noticed something that seemed wrong to me, took 10 seconds to respond to it and expected nothing more but possibly an acknowledgment that, indeed, “potentially” does not equal “likely.”
One man can dream. Aaron Rodgers once fell.
Not sure what the answer is, but I’m right there with you.
Aren’t all the options total crap shoots?
Even Andrew Luck is struggling this year.
One of (if not THE most-regarded draft experts) referred to him as the likely No. 1 pick had he had come out. If this isn’t good enough for me to use as a line item within a column, I’m not sure what to tell you. This will be the last comment I have on this matter as I prefer to engage with those who would rather talk about the team and what Mariota’s decision means for 2014. Good day.
Houston doesn’t want the next Alex Smith. Nor should we.
KC is a nice team (as was SF w/ Smith) and sure as heck entertaining compared with the garbage we have had to suffer through on Sundays. But, if you want to win a championship, you need a QB who can be elite (at least for a good stretch of games as Flacco and Eli have done).
If we draft McCarron in the 3rd/4th round because he drops and we want a QB3 behind our 1st round QB and Hoyer, then I’m all aboard. If we draft McCarron in the 1st or 2nd with the idea he’s “OUR QB” then I’m upset.
Fales definitely looked better than Carr in that game. Largely because the throws he was making were more timing based throws between defenders where alot of Carr’s big plays were just to wide-open WRs (which obviously isn’t his fault, but it’s hard to gauge how he’ll translate to the NFL level on plays like those).
I agree that Carr has been more consistent over the season though. It’s why judging these QBs is so difficult.
the same was said about Russell Wilson and Nick Foles and even RGIII by many at the time. QB college to NFL transition is the hardest transition to evaluate in football. the offenses run, the differences in talent levels on the field, and the ability to stay healthy at the next level are all huge variables in the equation.
that said, we cannot go into next season with Hoyer as our only option. so, we need to figure out which QBs we like and trust the most, then figure out when we need to pick them and do it.
Totally agree. Just go get your guy. Trust your scouting.
There’s a huge difference between taking a Wilson or Foles-like flyer on someone in the 3rd round and trading both #1s and change to move up into the top 5. I’m ALL for waiting to see who falls and if there’s someone in the mid-round that we like, absolutely pull that trigger. I’m against trading the farm for a gamble.
Draft expert is not the same as a talent evaluator. Always go with the latter in these matters.
No way Jacksonville does not get QB. NO WAY! Atl will be in there too, possibly Oak. I am assuming we lose out, but Jack, Hou, StL (Was), Alt, Min, oak, TB will end up with around 4 losses or less.
Matt Ryan as well!
you mentioned not selecting a QB in the 1st round at all and rolling with Hoyer. I completely am against doing that, which is where my response was directed.
i know you are a reasonable fellow, so i’ll make sure i more fully explain my thought process on that here:
McGloin, McCown, Keenum, and other QBs have looked good for short stretches this season but ultimately are not likely good starting options. I am worried Hoyer could fall into this category.
even if he ends up proving capable, then Hoyer also would need to prove he can stay healthy. I know that is a bit unfair, but in his chance to be a NFL starter, he injured himself and given the state of QBs in the NFL these days, I would worry about him staying healthy (so, I would still like to be developing a high round QB).
related to that last item is that I think we are going to see a shift from NFL teams moving forward. I think we are going to see MORE QBs taken and even teams with entrenched starters take & play more QBs. Peyton/Brady/Brees all get by with their quick decisions from the pocket, but there are few of the youngsters that do not venture outside and run (including Rodgers and Luck). I expect FO’s will see how they are risking their entire seasons on these guys staying healthy and will invest more on the position in the future.
though hard to fault Ryan considering the state of their OL and all of his offensive weaponry. proves you cannot “just” have the QB though 🙂
Smart move by Mariota!
what if JAX beats Houston and wins 1 more game and ends up drafting in the 6-9 range? they may decide the QBs they can get there are equally graded to the ones that will be there in round2 (or a slight trade-up).
also, important to note that we are ALL Jacksonville fans on Thursday. Houston is going to finish with less wins than us anyway, so we need JAX to somehow get more wins.
I can certainly see them going for a guy like Barr then getting QB next.
Holy crap, everyone. I was just asking a question. I generally don’t read/listen to a lot of what McShay has to say, so I hadn’t read his piece about Mariota being the top QB taken. I wasn’t trying to somehow light Scott on fire for saying it; I was just curious as to whether it was a sourced statement or just Scott’s own speculation/opinion. Two people provided a response.
All the rest of this poo flinging is pretty ridiculous.
Mariota, in my opinion, is overrated. Everyone touts his accuracy. But, after watching a few Oregon games, most notably the Stanford game, his accuracy dropped to complete inaccuracy when pressure was applied. That is true for any QB, even Manning and Brady. But, the franchise changing QB’s deal with pressure by knowing where to go with the ball, being on time, and getting rid of it. I don’t see that from Mariota. Also, he doesn’t have any highlights where he is driving the ball into a receiver that is tightly covered and fitting it into windows. His system allows receivers to run free against inferior competion, and to his credit, he hits them at a high rate of accuracy. But, there are very few plays where he is fitting the ball into tight spaces. I keep thinking he’s a sexier, younger Weeden at the next level that can add a running dimesion.
the main thing I worry about with Manziel is that there is alot of local chatter here that he has “checked-out” the past few weeks of this season.
hard to confirm one way or another, but definitely something I hope we have our scouts digging into.
I’m with you 100% on the QBs looking good for short stretches – heck, Browns fans are practically experts at making that type the “best QB EVAHH!!!!1!” over the years (see: Holcomb, Kelly; Anderson, Derek; too many more to list). And I hope I’m not trying to make Hoyer anything he’s not – he’s around an average QB with the ability to make decisions quickly. I’m not even saying that we should give him a chance to be a franchise QB – I think we’re all in agreement that he’s not. He’s pretty much the definition of a “replacement level” QB (forgive my mixing sports metaphors).
So like I said earlier, this year with a replacement level QB, the Browns are likely a .500 team. After that, there are a few places that can be upgraded to get those 1-2 more wins to get into the playoffs – beef up the holes on the defensive side and win a lot of low-scoring games, beef up the OL and get a RB that at least makes the opponents think about it, or yes, upgrade at QB. QB is the biggest risk/reward out of them – get the right guy and you’re set, miss and not only are you right back where you started, but you likely traded away assets to get him in the first place.
I can almost buy into your position of not leaving round 1 with a QB, but to my mind that’s more seeing who’s there in the upper 20s with the Colts pick – I’m pretty much strongly against taking any of the big names on the board in the top 10, and I’m 100% against trying to trade up for one of these guys. I just don’t think they’re worth it compared to some of the other need-based talent that will be available around that pick.
I think my suggestion of going into next season with Hoyer is more trying to set the team up to control its own destiny – stockpile talent and picks so that when the guy we truly know is “our guy” comes available (future draft or available in a trade) we’re in the position to pull that trigger and get him. What scares me about what I’m saying here is that I’m almost already writing off 2014, which I think just speaks to how beaten down I am as a Browns fan.
All of these guys have their drawbacks. Size, decision-making, etc. I will give you, howvever, that he’s sexier than Brandon Weeden.
Smart move Mariota. Between him not being available and both Murray and Mettenberger sustaining serious injuries the pool of potential QBs is even less.
I want either Sammy Watkins (our 1st) or Marquise Lee (Indy 1st), so I am with you on not trading up (I also see many of the non-Bridgewater guys pretty even).
Right now, I think Bortles with our pick in the 2nd round is most reasonable though we may need to take him with the Indy pick since so many teams need and will likely be taking a QB in the first 3 rounds this year.
“he has “checked-out” the past few weeks of this season.”
To quote Rachel Phelps: “I think he’ll fit right into our team concept”