July 31, 2014

WFNY Roundtable: Barkevious Mingo and Expectations

WFNY_roundtable
 
Here at WFNY, some of our best post ideas come from our daily email conversations. In the spirit of openness, we wanted our readers to get a sample of what one of these banter sessions look like. Craig sparked an idea about Barkevious Mingo and whether or not he has met our expectations. Normally these conversations take place via email, but for this Roundtable we decided to try a new service called ReplyAll.me. The roundtable discussion takes place below:

 
 
 
  • http://twitter.com/bbo13 B-bo

    We can certainly attribute some of his struggles in terms of pass rush to lack of interior pressure due to injuries., etc. But when you’re talking about the number six pick overall, shouldn’t we expect more of him, even without that interior help? If a guy is taken top ten, then you’re saying he should ultimately be an elite talent. That talent should be pretty obvious regardless of what the team as a whole does. Mingo has shown flashes, but is far too inconsistent for my tastes. Not writing the kid off, but if the question is was he worth of being picked when he was? To this point, no.

  • Big Z

    Besides Chance Warmack (and I don’t know about Lane Johnson), It could be said that none of the top-10 picks this year really lived up to their expectations. Hopefully Mingo is able to pack on a few pounds during the off-season and improve during his sophmore year.

  • Ezzie Goldish

    Although Craig’s last comment is a fair point, it’s also slightly overstated. While some guys are top-notch from their first year, it’s not true of all – Gordon showed flashes last year, but even until the last six weeks was only “very good” and not “superstar”.

    Mingo shows flashes, especially when looking at film. His biggest mistakes seem to come when he either is fooled and gets himself out of position (like that Spiller run) or when he freezes when he’s unsure and doesn’t want to get out of position (so he ends up just kind of standing there with an OL). When he knows exactly what he wants to do or anticipates correctly, he seems to get there and do his job incredibly well. Since he’s a rookie, that’s fantastic – the more he sees and learns the more he’ll be able to get those reads and make all the plays.

  • Ezzie Goldish

    Also worth adding that in addition to his defensive skills, the way the Browns run special teams (using a lot of regular D players) may also create another way for him to have game-changing abilities. On punts he is often really close to getting his hand on the ball. Just something to keep an eye on down the line.

  • woofersus

    Elite talent and elite results are two different things though. We drafted a guy who we knew had a little bit of physical development left to do, and then put him in a new position that he wasn’t familiar with. He’s certainly showed that talent in flashes, but he’s still learning the position. Consistency is a lot more likely to improve than talent. I don’t know for sure that it will, but it’s obvious he’s struggling a little bit with recognition of the play, and I think that’s just something he didn’t have to do in the same way at LSU.

  • http://dawgpounddaily.com/author/markjosephpi/ Mark J

    “shouldn’t we expect more of him?”

    Should we really, though? It’d be one thing if the top 10 picks in every draft came out and played like superstars right from the get-go, but that’s not the NFL in 2014.

  • Tom Skowronek Jr

    “Even Kamerion Wimbley had 11 sacks his rookie year on a 4-12 Browns team” Way to destroy the great point you had been making. He had an amazing rookie year and then NEVER GOT BETTER AND EVEN REGRESSED.

  • http://dawgpounddaily.com/author/markjosephpi/ Mark J

    I don’t want to beat a dead workhorse, but…..

    What will last longer, Trent Richardson’s NFL career or his mentions in some WFNY articles?

  • http://www.waitingfornextyear.com Craig Lyndall

    You may be tired of it, but it’s relevant. I’ll continue to post about it whenever I find it relevant to do so. Maybe that’s continually until the year 2027. Stay tuned.

  • http://www.waitingfornextyear.com Craig Lyndall

    A good point.

  • http://dawgpounddaily.com/author/markjosephpi/ Mark J

    I get that Trent and Barkevious are/were both 1st round picks that were made by the Cleveland Browns, is that the relevance?

    Because beyond that, I fail to see the similarities in the players, their positions, their standings as prospects prior to the draft, or their standings within the organization after the draft

  • @TheDeePagel

    I think it is pretty simple with Mingo: He will be a beast once he fills out….he just needs to physically mature, and by that I mean get bigger which usually happens as you get older. Once this happens, it is clear to me he will be unstoppable.

    The 6th round pick debate is real though – should a 6th pick be a stud right away? Usually yes, but then in the same breath we are hoping to draft a QB in the Spring and let him sit and develop…..yet we aren’t willing to give Mingo the same option?

    I thought it was obvious we picked Mingo for production he will give 3-4 years later….not now.

    Maybe I was alone in this.

  • bupalos

    My concern (as someone who hated the pick but now likes the Mingo) is that I’m not sure the Browns have the right idea about this freakish athlete’s proper role. The idea that we pack pounds on him so he can be a better outside rusher is the epitome of the mistake. This guy is a large safety. He needs to become the guy who either runs with the TE or back, anchors the middle of a deep zone, or runs delays and gap blitzes where the QB relaxes a bit and then can’t believe how fast he got from there to here. He needs to be in the middle of the action. He needs to be more Polamolu than Wake.

    His hand should be on the ground running around the edge maybe 8 times a game. That is nearly all they’ve done with him, shoot him like a bullet at the back of the pocket. For my money he’s too much of a hybrid athletic presence to be shot out of the play 80% of the time.

  • maxfnmloans

    The question isn’t whether Mingo is meeting expectations for a #6 pick. From what I gather, his effort has never been in question, and it is not his fault he was picked #6. He disappears during games for stretches, but has made more than a few “jump off the screen” plays (even some that dont show up in box scores, like hurries or blowing up a lane and causing a play to be re-directed).

    My big question is about the people running the show. We were 5-11, needed all sorts of help on the roster, and they picked a situational pass rusher? Because we have time to sit and wait for him to develop? Am I the only who who takes this information, extrapolates, and then gets a know in their stomach when it comes to the 2014 draft?

    But again re: Mingo- he has shown flashes of briillance. Hopefully it will only get better. I just don’t think using a top 10 pick on “flashes” is the best way to run a railroad…of course, it’s not my railroad to run.

  • bupalos

    I am just fundamentally opposed to packing pounds on guys that run 4.5

    You don’t need to change what this kid is, you need to use him right.

  • maxfnmloans

    “. He needs to become the guy who either runs with the TE or back, anchors the middle of a deep zone, or runs delays and gap blitzes where the QB relaxes a bit and then can’t believe how fast he got from there to here”

    This…the new evolution in the NFL (and coming up through CFB) are large TE’s that have reciever speed and a catch radius the size of Mars. The guys who are “too fast for LB’s but too big for DB’s” to cover. Mingo could be that “Weapon X”, with the athleticism to keep up and the strength to bring down.

    Unfortunately, that might take some doing, as he was not much of a drop into coverage guy in college (I know he did it form time to time, but that’s not his forte)

  • bupalos

    ANSAH??!

  • bupalos

    This is exactly my thought, and I still have hopes this is their plan. The guy is clearly very smart, he runs like a gazelle and changes directions on a dime. It will take some coaching up, but this guy needs to be more than a situational rusher.

  • bupalos

    The jury is still out on Brady Quinn, too.

  • Jason Hurley

    Mario Williams looked like hot garbage his first year, and got significantly better as a player after his rookie year. It’s possible that Mingo could take a big step forward with a full offseason of work with the coaching staff.

  • NeedsFoodBadly

    All that extra salary cap kanick has been worried about has been secretly funnelled towards adamantium. It’s all so clear now.

  • Patrick Elder

    This was the consensus right after the pick was made, I thought. I’m honestly perplexed that people had higher expectations than what he’s shown so far.

    He was supposed to simply be a situational pass-rusher. Due to injuries, he was forced into playing more and has had his ups and downs. He’s flashed some brilliance and made some rookie mistakes.

    I’m perfectly pleased with what he’s shown us.

  • BenRM

    While it doesn’t show up on the stats sheet, I think we should also note how many penalties Mingo has drawn. A hold is just about as good as a sack.

  • BenRM

    LARRY VICKERS

  • Daniel Carroll

    Wasn’t Trent Richardson ONLY mentioned because he was our first round pick last year? I don’t see this as being about T-Rich at all. He was just mentioned as a prism to look though as they started to discuss Mingo.

    I think its valid. The TRich trade should be mentioned as we look towards 2014 because it’s going to have a huge impact on the draft. Saw someone going on and on about this same sentiment on Twitter. Kind of a stupid thing to get your panties in a twist about. Its not like we traded him 5 years ago, he was on the team THIS YEAR. Its totally valid and I don’t understand the attack on WFNY for it.

  • http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/ Scott @ WFNY

    Boy are the panties going to get a’bunched next week as we roll on with the Top 10 stories of 2013.

    Cheers, Dan.

  • http://dawgpounddaily.com/author/markjosephpi/ Mark J

    But what’s the prism, that they’re both 1st round picks? Any comparison between the players ends there as far as I can see.

    One guy was supposed to be a NFL ready workhorse running back that was traded up for by the previous regime, and the other guy was/is a developmental pass rusher who wasn’t slated to play full time when he was drafted by the current regime

    I don’t get the comparison, the prism, or the relevance. Honestly.

  • Daniel Carroll

    Merry Christmas and cheers to you as well!

  • The_Matt_Of_Akron

    Mingo just pawn in game of football.

  • http://twitter.com/bbo13 B-bo

    If this were a team that is generally well put together and simply driven to a down year by key injuries, then you have the luxury of drafting on potential and athleticism and molding the guy to a new position. This is a bad team in need of impact players, not projects. Taking a guy that high tells me you think he can provide that sooner rather than later. This isn’t quite as frustrating as the Cavs and the Anthony Bennett Experience, but it’s still worrisome. Mingo needn’t be LT 2.0 right out of the gate, but this has been underwhelming to say the least.

  • Big Z

    Ansah is 40th in the league with 7 sacks. Most of them came in 2 games. He has less tackles than Mingo and been injured quite a bit as well. And regardless of your beliefs the coaching staff will beef Mingo up in the offseason.

  • Big Z

    The only expectation that I had for him was to make an impact. In my opinion, he’s fallen short of that. Many DE prospects that have been selected high in the draft over the last few years have gotten off to slow starts then started being productive later on. Hopefully Mingo follows suit.

  • mgbode

    candygram for Mingo. candygram for Mingo.

  • http://dawgpounddaily.com/author/markjosephpi/ Mark J

    I’m just saying the expectations may be a little high for ANY #6 pick.

    Look back through the recent NFL draft, look at the 6-10 guys, very few took the NFL by storm.

  • bupalos

    While 7 sacks in the snaps he’s played leads all rookies and is nothing to sneeze at, D line is about a lot more than sacks. I think in a redraft right now he would go 1-3. He stuffs the run and gets sacks and plays the screen beautifully. They are sometimes playing him inside in a wide-9 and he just about always takes two blockers and provides a push and opens a hole for someone else to get a sack.

    He’s already a force. He’s been playing football 3 years.

    Mingo I don’t know. I think maybe more like #10-15. The trend in college of not being able to beat any block he can’t run around is just as evident. He is never going to be adequate in the power department. When blockers get on him, he absolutely disappears. His physical type is simply different and while I’m not disputing they may make the mistake of trying to create Cameron Wake, I do think that would be a mistake. He’s got the brain and body to be more than that.