Has Andrew Wiggins actually been included in a Cavs offer for Kevin Love?

flip saunders

 

flip saunders

Someday we’ll find out these things for sure, but the sources and details are flying and as is often the case, there’s disagreement or at least confusion. Most everyone who thinks about this potential trade at all assumes that Minnesota talks about Andrew Wiggins and that the Cavs likely do as well. The wording on the reports doesn’t necessarily put them at odds, but it’s confounding to try and figure out what’s actually happening.

Take this report (most recently updated July 23rd at 2:03 PM) from Marc Stein and Brian Windhorst at ESPN.

Cleveland’s offer, sources said, would be headlined by No. 1 overall pick Andrew Wiggins, 2013’s No. 1 overall pick Anthony Bennett and a future first-round pick, with one source close to the process insisting Tuesday that the Cavs are destined to acquire Love. At least one more player might have to added to the package to satisfy NBA trade rules.

And then Sam Amico’s tweet from this afternoon at about 5:00 PM indicates that despite talk, the Cavaliers haven’t actually offered Andrew Wiggins in any trade proposal.

It’s enough to make you want to rip your hair out. So the Cavs and Wolves are talking about deals for Kevin Love. Invariably Andrew Wiggins’ name comes up to the point that he is “headlining” the Cavs’ offer, and yet when it comes to actually discussing potential proposals, the Cavaliers aren’t actually offering Wiggins in any of them?

So the conversation’s like this?

Minny: “Yeah, so if we can get the expiring deals right? Then maybe find one player other than Andrew Wiggins that we want to keep… and then also Andrew Wiggins… that’s what we’re thinking.”

Cleveland: “So we need to get expiring deals and one player other than Andrew Wiggins that you want to keep….” (trails off)

Minny: “And Andrew Wiggins.”

Cleveland: “I hear what you’re saying. Hmmm. Yeah. Talk to you later!”

Have the Cavs really technically not offered Andrew Wiggins in any scenario? Does any of this have anything to do with the timing of finally signing Wiggins today? I guess we’ll find out for sure in the next 30 days, but even with the Browns starting training camp this weekend, I don’t think that’s just going to fly by without a lot of turbulence in the rumor mill.

Not looking forward to that.

  • RGB
  • mgbode

    Well, ESPN also has said that Minny asked for Dion, Bennett, Wiggins, 2 1st rounders and that still wasnt’ enough (hinting that we also needed to take back Martin & Barea), while at the same time noting Chicago’s best offer was Gibson+Mirotic+McDermott (who cannot be traded until Aug.22nd) and that Golden State refuses to put Klay Thompson in their deal.

    So, I’m not so sure Flip is all that interested in trading Kevin Love quite yet anyway.

  • Jeff Rich

    I don’t believe he has. I think Minnesota accepts that trade before Cleveland has a chance to change their mind, if it was actually offered…and I am pretty sure it wasn’t. I think the national sources have to sell sexiness, while the local guy is better off giving the truth. Local reporters are held more accountable than an Entertainment Sports Network, by their bosses, the players, and their regional audience.

  • RGB

    Flip (and ESPN, and Fedor) can go pound sand.
    That’s like paying $100 for something that’s worth $80, when the best offer so far is $40.

  • mgbode

    yeah, but BW is about to break the story about Griffin having Panda Express delivered and he got this fortune in his cookie!!!

    http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s–ioNUEXk4–/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/uy4qrhh3ei6y1idmzroi.jpg

  • eldaveablo

    I’m trying to remind myself of the lesson I learn over & over (Decision pt 1, Decision Part Deux) – There is lots of misinformation out there; don’t take any of it seriously. This is silly season personified. Both sides are leaking info in hopes of improving their situation, and the media outlets publish ALL OF IT to drive up page clicks and get everyone in a lather. None of this is reliant on truth or reality.

    I’ll play along for the fun of it, but I need to remind myself how worthless this all is once I start to get annoyed.

    I also need to remind myself that while I have a preference (I want to keep Wiggins) it’s gravy either way. Was it even 2 months ago that we were hoping for McBuckets in the draft? Was it even 3 weeks ago we were hoping Utah wouldn’t match our max offer to Gordon Hayward? Perspective.

  • BenRM

    So I’m sure a number of people here participate in any number of negotiations as part of their jobs. When you are naturally in the stronger position (as every non-MN team is here, the buyer to someone who needs to sell) you don’t make offer your best until you have to do it. Klay, wiggins, butler, etc.

    There is a hard deadline for MN. I don’t expect anyone to offer the above 3 until near that time or unless someone in CLE, GS, or CHI cracks.

  • eldaveablo

    Oh yeah, and how about that interview CtB had with Windy – Irving was unhappy and probably leaving, and Gilbert was intrigued by Isaiah Thomas as GM.

  • BenRM

    Any “report” MN liked the CHI deal was spun by MN. That deal is objectively garbage.

  • nj0

    I miss waiting for Lebron to decide.

  • CB Everett

    Is Andrew Wiggins really Andrew Wiggins? Or Andrew Wiggins or Andrew Wiggins. Kevin Love. Andrew Wiggins. Love. Wiggins. Wiggins.

    Make this stop. Please dear Lord. Make this stop for at least 30 days. I beg of you…

  • RGB

    Don’t worry…JFF will be in Berea, soon. ;)

  • architrance

    Also it seemed like the idea of the Cavs taking back big contracts has only appeared recently. I wonder if the Cavs have steered Minny away from Wiggins by saying they’d take the big JJ/KMart $$, in addition to sending them a big group of players & picks, as an alternative to Wiggins & taking back no extra salary. Obviously they are probably going to need to find a 3rd team to absorb some of the contracts.

    But what if they manage to get Love & keep Wiggs? Everyone bemoans the loss of Wiggins, but could someone from the group of Dion, TT and Bennet really have blossomed as a 4th/5th option on this team?

    Love is great, but I hope they are exploring other options simultaneously (I’m sure they are)

    Who’s playing C? Are they going to be able sign a Okafor/Mullins/Oden for the minimum? Are any of those guys even worth it? The free agent market should be loaded with good youngish C’s next year, so I’m hoping in vain they nab one in a sign & trade next summer.

  • Steve

    So how high are you valuing Dion, Bennett, and a couple picks in the late 20s? I know your numbers are pulled out of thin air, but I’m trying to wrap my head around these valuations.

    I like Wiggins’ potential too, but he’s not Love, not even close yet. We’re all hoping that Wiggins can become the top 10 player that Love already is. If Love is worth “$80″, that package is nowhere near worth “$120″.

    And the Cavs problem is that without Wiggins, they can’t top offers of “$40″. It’s a hefty price to pay, but it seems like the only winning card the Cavs have in their hand.

  • cmm13
  • cmm13

    You seem to think that there actually other teams the Cavs are seriously bidding against.

    If that were true then yes; the valuations you speak of come to question.

    But until another team lays the trump card down (GSW Klay) this is hold’em against the house.

    The upper hand the Cavs and GSW have right now is that neither seem to want to lay that trump so Minny is trying to create higher valuations with similar offers (CHI).

    I think Harv said it best, steady Mr. Griffin, steady and stare.

  • mgbode

    Wiggins doesn’t have to be as good as Love. 1yr v. 6-7yrs of control is what we are discussing here. And the first four really cheap.

  • mgbode

    He arrived yesterday!!!

  • mgbode

    Who picks up the check for center?
    Exactly.
    What is the name of the center?
    Naw, What is the backup PG.

  • Steve Smith

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  • https://twitter.com/Steve_Not_Chad Steve_Not_Chad

    Delladova!

  • RGB
  • mgbode

    I was waiting for the Mary Kay article yesterday announcing him, but it never came. Perhaps, she is still just staring in awe with the appreciation of a young child?

    http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m30ol58joL1rpc5pto1_500.png

  • mgbode

    CENTERFIELD!

  • RGB

    Sorry. Jumped the gun.

  • https://twitter.com/Steve_Not_Chad Steve_Not_Chad

    CENTERFOLD!

  • https://twitter.com/Steve_Not_Chad Steve_Not_Chad

    I don’t want JFF Barea as part of this trade!

  • mgbode

    MY ANGEL!

  • https://twitter.com/Steve_Not_Chad Steve_Not_Chad

    CHERRY BOMB!

  • eldaveablo

    Not to mention, a fraction of the cost.

  • Steve

    I have no idea why people think there aren’t other teams bidding. Is this just wishcasting? Chicago and Boston were showing interest in Love before the Cavs won the lottery and got themselves in the ballgame. All reports out of Phoenix are that they were turning their attention to Love when they lose out on Lebron/Carmelo. Yes, there are other bidders.

    That said, that has nothing to do with the valuations. Regardless of what other teams are offering, does RGB think Wiggins = Love? Or that the Snow/Newble/Jones pupu platter they we all would rather give up is worth more than a pittance?

  • Steve

    We have years 5-7 of Wiggins just as much as we have years 2-6 of Love. The value of his Bird Rights is worth a hell of a lot.