Cincinnati remains unbeaten; Eagles upset by Elder
September 22, 2014ESPN Ultimate Team Standings not-so kind to Cleveland
September 22, 2014Following the Week 3 loss to the Baltimore Ravens, everyone seems to want to talk about Joe Haden. He’s the one who is the “Athlete Mayor” of Cleveland. He’s the one who throws parties, has composure in front of a camera or a microphone and, so far in his career, has been a player that Browns fans could count on. Cornerback is one of those positions though. You can’t play that position and shut out the opposition. It doesn’t matter who you play against, you’re going to give up passes, yards, and sometimes look silly with flags. And every time you do, it’s going to be a big, wide, stage with nothing to do but walk back to the huddle, try to forget it and try again. While Joe Haden can play better than he has in the first three games of 2014, looking at him and casting blame is too easy. Instead, look where the stats aren’t piling up for the Browns defense in the category of “sacks.”
Everyone knew going into this season that the Browns were going to play a ton of man coverage with their corners left to dangle with receivers. We knew this because the flip side is that Mike Pettine’s defensive scheme was going to get the quarterback. It was meant to take Paul Kruger, Jabaal Sheard, Desmond Bryant, Barkevious Mingo and some of the linebackers and make them quarterback-rushing monsters. So far, the only monster being created by the Browns pass rush is on Joe Haden’s back.
Paul Kruger has been the best of the bunch so far with his two sacks. After that, Karlos Dansby, Jabaal Sheard, and Chris Kirksey each have one. Through three games, this defensive juggernaut has five sacks. Craig Robertson pretty much got a sack against Baltimore, save a behind-the-line-of-scrimmage shovel pass that Joe Flacco “completed” for negative yardage. Paul Kruger was the man who got hands on Joe Flacco to start the fourth quarter that led to an “arm punt” to Tashaun Gipson who intercepted it. So I know that just because sacks aren’t always piling up in the stat sheet doesn’t mean the Browns’ pass rush isn’t working.1
I’m also not trying to tell you the Browns’ secondary is playing well. How can I, when this passes for “defense” by the Browns’ top drafted player, Justin Gilbert?
I’m simply saying that in the scope of the team and its struggles, we knew, or should have known, that if the Browns had difficulties putting a pass rush on, that they’d run into this problem.
As the Browns head into their bye week, you can save me the Manziel calls. Brian Hoyer has played more than adequately enough to keep his job. Kyle Shanahan has also called a very competitive offensive game plan to the point where I really don’t have any major complaints. The offensive line is doing a really nice job, including Mitchell Schwartz who has mostly kept his name out of our mouths so far this season. Mostly.
Even the wide receivers who were scaring us all heading into the season have shown a capability to get open, actually catch the ball and make people miss. Sure, I wish they wouldn’t fall down when they have clear lanes to the end zone in back-to-back games, but remember Greg Little and Davone Bess. This is an improvement and the Browns are likely going to get Josh Gordon back as long as he can keep his nose clean.
Of course I think the Browns need to work on their special teams. I don’t know if they want to try out long-snappers this week. I don’t know if Chris Tabor wants to grit his teeth and grab some players by the jersey and get some things straightened out. Certainly in addition to the field goal unit woes, Travis Benjamin needs to fair catch a ball close to the 20 to save it from going down to the Browns 6-yard line with the game on the line and field position being of utmost importance.
But if I have to pick one, I’m looking at the pass rush. I’m looking at all the money the Browns have spent on their payroll on the defensive line. I’m looking at Paul Kruger’s $8 million, Ahtyba Rubin’s $8 million, Desmond Bryant’s $12 million over the first two years in Cleveland. I’m looking at highly drafted guys like Barkevious Mingo and even Jabaal Sheard. This is one of the units that I expected to be a strength of the roster. This is one of the units I expected to be maximized with the hiring of Browns head coach Mike Pettine. This is the spot where the Browns have clear and achievable improvement on the table, if you ask me.
Yes, Joe Haden needs to play better. Yes, Justin Gilbert needs to play better. Right now, though,their play is a leading indicator that the Browns pass rush is not getting the job done.
- For the sake of fairness, Sheard has eight QB hurries on the season. Billy Winn is second with five. [↩]
47 Comments
Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much work to be done with this bye week. Pass rush, coverage, special teams: auditioning a new long snapper, Cundiff kicking nothing but 40+ in practice and Benjamin learning how to field punts!
Agree. It’s clear that Mingo has developed no effective countermoves and is too weak to bullrush (don’t get me started on his run defense). When O’Neil blitzes a corner or safety it looks like there’s few clear paths to the QB because the pocket is intact too long. Maybe Bryant’s still hurting but there’s not much pressure generally.
And on a general defensive note, where the hell was Dansby yesterday after making so much noise in the first two games?
Seriously, Gilbert looks like he’s never played the position before.
Mingo is giving me flashbacks of Kamerion Wimbley, a one-trick pony.
Gotta hand it to the fans yesterday. Their passion and noise has been more than anyone could ask for. Unfortunately, when the hordes left the Factory of Sadness shoulder-to-shoulder, it was the familiar old Shuffle of Gloom up West 3rd St.
I like your style, Craig…and much of what you say about the defensive linemen and LBs is accurate, but this post reads like it was written by Joe Haden’s agent.
You just can’t say “the pass rush is bad”…then point out a bunch of times when the pass rush was good (near sack on Flacco’s dump off pass for a loss, forced arm punt, etc.), and finally conclude that they are responsible for Haden’s woes. As stated in WINNERS/LOSERS, Haden has been nearly the worst starting CB in the league through 3 weeks (93rd of 95, right?). If he was in the middle of the pack…if I could remember a single pass he broke up in three weeks…if he wasn’t torched for game changing receptions in three consecutive weeks…I would be right there with you.
The guy needs to go to his Zen place over the bye or something, because right now, he’s not even getting by as an average CB. The pass rush hasn’t been stellar, but it has forced throws by opposing QBs…that’s by design. It seems pretty obvious to me that the Browns built this defensive scheme to force pressure and early throws that would then be defended by a 1st round CB and an all-pro CB, and right now, it’s not working.
WRs falling to make sure they catch balls >>> WRs dropping balls in stride.
I think the coaches need to talk to Haden and Gilbert and emphasize that their job is not to break on picks, their job is to stay with their WRs and not let themselves get beat. There’s no help. If they can stay with them, that pass rush will get there. If they bite, the QB is throwing before that pass rush comes. Do that enough and while yes you’ll give up a few short passes here and there (see Skrine) you won’t be getting beaten deep or for TDs and that will eventually create situations that you can get those picks.
When is John Hughes coming back. He was boss in the presseason. Phil Taylor is too obese to play more than half the downs and Rubin has lost a step.
good or bad, I dont recall him or Kirksey being called at all yesterday.
Let’s call it like it is – Mingo is a huge liability and really shouldnt be out there on any potential run play. Liable to get sucked inside and give up a home run on a running play on any down. Happened twice last year, happened this preseason, happened yesterday.
For spceial teams:
Yount’s snapping has been bad and Lanning shaky on the holds. I think Cundiff is fine.
The Punt Return game is a F. Time to move on from Benjamin.
To me, Tabor has proven to be great over the years so I’ll cut him some slack. But the blocing scheme was exposed. NO almost blocked the week 2 game-winner. Time to go back to the drawing board.
I agree. Since he’s on the roster, save him for third down pass rush situations only. He doesn’t play the run well enough to take the chance.
While you’re at it, don’t give him coverage responsibilities either. That FB touchdown reception was brutal to watch.
I agree that our pass rush has not been good. More than merely sacks, I would like to see where we rank in “time to throw” as it does seem we give too much time. Pettine and O’Neil have had success getting to the QB in the past, so we expected them to be able to do it here. Hopefully, they are able to figure out what isn’t working and come up with ways to put more pressure on the opposition soon.
I never thought this would be possible, but right now our best corner is Buster Skrine.
I’d much rather replace Benjamin with someone who actually wants to field punts and run with the ball until tackled.
Doubt you’d be saying this if Skrine was responsible for covering Steve Smith yesterday. It’s just easier to cover the opponent’s second or third best receiver.
I would never have guessed after three weeks Benjamin would be a better WR then PR. Maybe Gabriel would be a better choice.
Dansby made one play, I think, which was one more then the rest of the LBs.
I heard someone yesterday on one of the many shows that covers the Browns talking about how the change in the way secondary players could cover WRs is effecting Haden. When I thought about it I think this is absolutely true. When Haden was in the draft wasn’t there something about his speed being an issue? The fact he can’t touch, grab, hold or impede WRs to help lessen his lack of speed could be his problem. Funny thing is Richard Sherman and Talib don’t seem to be as affected by the rule change.
It is a great point, thanks for bringing it up. Players like Sherman & Haden will have to figure things out.
And, it absolutely is effecting Sherman. Keenan Allen won that battle last week and Emmanuel Sanders won the battle this week (Maxwell covered part of the time, but Emmanuel had no issues with Richard). In week1, Rodgers never threw a pass Sherman’s way, which he likely now regrets seeing how the next 2 contests played out.
To be fair, he was pretty badly hurt doing that last year. Which isn’t a defense of him being the PR, but of why he may be reluctant to be one when there’s traffic.
Don’t act shocked or surprised $hamrock is a wealth of knowledge!
Not to correct you but um did you see the catches Sherman gave up verse SD? I believe they numbered less then five and of those at least two came off of motion and the other was maybe less then 10 yards. Gates gutted Seattle. As for the Denver game if there was any team who the Seahawks would give up catches to it would be the Manning led Broncos. I watched the game I didn’t see Sherman on Sanders a whole lot but I did see him on D.Thomas. Thomas had a bad ankle but was held in check.
But speaking of tight ends…where was Jordan Cameron yesterday? When the Browns played the Saints Jimmy Graham couldn’t be stopped even when everyone including the Browns knew he was option #1. Now credit must be given to the Browns because they basically took the rest of the Saints WRs out of the game but even still Graham almost beat them single handedly. I bring up Graham because if Cameron thinks he’s in that league he better get an ego check. Gordon is out this is when Cameron needs to step up and play like one of the top TEs in the game. We’ll see week 5.
not shocked nor surprised, not sure why you felt it. you are a good commenter when you are not going for “shock” value, but you are good at getting a rise at people too, so your shock value comments obviously work how you intend them to work.
yes, I watched the Keenan Allen catches as they were dissected on the NFLN show during the week. and, they demonstrated that even when Allen didn’t get the target, he was getting open and suggested that Allen had “broken the Sherman coverage code.”
Sherman stays on his side of the field, so he was on Sanders whenever Emmanuel lined up on his side. Best I can tell, Peyton was 4/5 for 56yds including 3 1st downs passing Sherman’s way (with the incomplete being the only time he threw to D.Thomas).
$hamrok never goes for $hok value…$hamrok has a complex because he has yet to garner the coveted light blue comment of the section. Certainly it must be an oversight right I mean even Steven has gotten one.
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDk4WDUyOA==/z/xdwAAMXQrhdTQMU2/$_35.JPG
As for Sherman’s coverage yesterday $hamrok didn’t see every play but what you say sounds realistic. Again tho, it was against Denver. Broncos finally figured it out late unfortunately their defense which had been strong all game totally puked in overtime.
Mingo is unaware of these coverage responsibilities of which you speak.
And man, do they bite, hard. Joe almost seems to show a kind of I’m-so-smart-I-can’t-be-beat attitude and when he is his demeanor looks like he can’t comprehend what just happened. Gilbert looks frustrated.
For all the concern about tackling fundamentals that guy wraps and drags to the ground.
Remember this summer when we kept saying how Skrine would thrive in the slot. At least one part of the secondary is working like projected.
http://media.giphy.com/media/odheujzsOio5q/giphy.gif
Man shoulders
Pass rush? Really? Not giving up over 150 yards per game on the ground? Pass rush and Special Teams? Fascinating.
Put Gilbert back there on punts and kicks
Where do you get great over the years? He single handedly lost us the Cinci game which is very hard for a ST coach to do. He lines up guys that have no experience and no business at critical positions and they make very predictable critical mistakes. It’s not muffed punts and physical miscues, it’s guys not actually knowing what to do, repeatedly. It’s guys not being prepped.
The first blocked punt in that cinci game was on the most common type of middle rush there is, and one of the RB’s, I forget who, as personal protector simply didn’t know his assignment. The second (there have never been 2 blocked punts by one team in an NFL game before) was with Mingo lined up there and he had absolutely no idea what angle he could allow. Now it’s Winn being lined up too tight again despite getting the warning shot from NO. I’m done with that guy, he’s not running a tight ship at all.
For most of his time, I thought Browns were in or near top 10 in all 4 areas of punt returns, kick returns, punt returns allowed and kickoff returns allowed.
And he lost us the Bengals game, even though we had a morbid run game and let Campbell throw almost 60 times. I think you’re blaming too much on him but so be it.
Marlon Moore did very well in preseason on reg kickoffs; Benjamin regressing so much on punts has been bad. I have no idea about the punts though. Very frustrating. I’d still lean against having him do those, I dont think he’s practiced those much at all.
I think playing against some “weaker” competition in the coming weeks may be a cure for alot of that. Pitt ran all over Carolina, who is regarded as good, and Balt. hasn’t really been slowed down by anyone either… Hopefully next time we face them, we can do a better job.
Good points lets hope so.
You might be giving him a break citing only two times last year he was sucked inside. I mean at what point does he realize he has outside contain?
lol I cited just the TDs that were pon him. We got off Trent Richardson before too late, probably time to size up Mingo for a trade if he cant get his act together. He’s gonna be a 3rd down specialist at best pretty soon.
They are giving up 5.2 yards per carry…..
I agree with you. The problems start right there.
He’s waved for fair catch multiple times this year with over 8-10 yards of daylight. He lost his mojo.
amusingly he currently rates better than Haden
Tabor was good with Chicago and Hester. Has been mediocre to worthless with the Browns, thinking all he really had was good returners,he never seemed to have a good kicking unit or coverage on kicks.
Hughes played on Sunday,only 24% of the snaps according to DWBN…I also think Rubin is trying to do too much,trying to cover Taylors problems. Though by any measure the front is getting manhandled.
Thanks, I didn’t hear Hughes and but admittedly was half-watching and half-radio. I tried to catch Hughes out there but when I watched it seemed BAL wasn’t subbing much and Browns couldn’t rotate.
I think it would have been nice for Pettine to burn a timeout and just let defense get some air. He tries to sit on them a bit too much.
I would also have liked a TO after the Gabriel bomb. We’ll have to see if a trend w/ him.
Rick Gosselin does the special teams ranking based on 22 metrics. Last 4 years I think Browns went 14, 14, 3, 1. Just query “Rick Gosselin special teams” and the year and you should get it, Football Outsiders usually links to it annually.
Not sure any one facet of the defense is at fault – the defense has been bad in ALL areas and that is reflected in their ranking.
Unlike Shanahan, who appears talented enough to tweak the offense to the strengths of the players, Pettine seems to be force feeding his “scheme” whether the scheme matches the players abilities or not.
This defense (and its scheme) is worse than any defense the Browns have had in the last several years, but the overall talent of the defensive players is better?? To me that directly points to the coaches and/or their “scheme”.
Sorry, but it is maddening when you believe the defense will be great and it turns out to be one of the worst in the league. The players say it’s a long season and there are a lot of games left, but we’re almost 1/4 of the way through the season! When do we see some sense of urgency on the defensive side?
Thank God the offense has been way better than expected.
The fact that teams are running right at and over interior run-stopping beasts like Taylor and Rubin should tell us that these guys haven’t yet internalized the scheme. They seem to be vacating, or hesitating, or something. Both previously made good transitions from the 4-3 to the 3-4 so it’s not like they’re stupid or misfits in the scheme. At this point I think we need to look at the teaching, either the DC or the line coach.
Absolutely agree.
As an example, is Kyle Fuller that much better than Gilbert or is he coached up and put in a scheme that fits his skillset better? When you have talented players playing worse than last year or worse than expected, don’t you have to consider the teacher?
Or maybe we simply have to give credit to the offenses of Pittsburg, NO, and Baltimore. I know Pittsburg made Carolina’s defense look pretty shabby.