Tweets of the Game: Raiders vs. Browns – Second Half
October 26, 2014The NBA regular season is finally here: While We’re Waiting…
October 27, 2014The Cleveland Browns offense was ugly and the defense carried the day. That’s not something we could say early on in the Browns’ season when the team was averaging more than three TDs per game on the scoreboard. Well, now the Browns can’t run the ball, have a tough time finding the end zone, and their defense is carrying them. Granted the Oakland Raiders aren’t good, but a win’s a win’s a win. The Browns beat the Raiders on Sunday 23-13. It wasn’t even that close, but a garbage TD gave the Raiders an extra seven on the board.
The bad news? There will certainly be more and more Johnny Manziel talk this week. I don’t think there should be, but it’s going to happen. I can’t deny the fact that Brian Hoyer likely should have thrown two or three interceptions if the Raiders would have been willing to catch them. I admit that. Still, this isn’t a shocker. The Browns are supposed to be a team that runs the ball and they’re struggling to do it right now.
Maybe Johnny Manziel would be better than Brian Hoyer, but this adjustment to life without Alex Mack is more difficult than I ever could have imagined. Either that or maybe the Browns put enough tape on file that the gameplan is getting more sophisticated against their abilities. Regardless, the result is a whole lot of field goals instead of touchdowns.
Thankfully with a good defensive performance highlighted by Joe Haden, Tashaun Gipson, Paul Kruger, and even struggling rookie Justin Gilbert, the Browns got it done against the second winless team they’ve played in as many weeks. In a weekly contest of survival, the Browns didn’t look dominant or even good in a lot of ways, but they were able to pass the test in the “pass / fail” league as Mike Pettine described it.
It’s all a part of it for the Browns this year. They survive a week, improve their record to 4-3 while another week passes until Josh Gordon comes back. Brian Hoyer played better than he did against Jacksonville, and while he still looks like a shell of the guy he was when the run game was working, he was good enough. And that’s good enough for me right now. Try and win eight games and then we’ll see where the Browns are after that.
The Browns have Tampa coming next before traveling to Cincy. There’s still a lot to win and a lot to lose for this Browns team. Even after a rough-looking win, they can determine their own destiny. Will they continue to improve after the loss of Alex Mack? Will they continue to play on only one side of the ball per week or will they eventually put the whole deal together?
49 Comments
That was the most uncomfortable win I can recall since the 6-3 Seahawks game in 2011.
There were some positives (Haden & Gilbert made plays, Andrew Hawkins continued to exceed expectations, and the defense was more than solid against a pathetic Raiders offense), but too many negatives to feel genuine hope for the back-end of the schedule (non-existent running game, recurrent special teams blunders, Hoyer’s obvious limitations in the long- and mid-range passing game and inability to make plays).
Glad to have won, but that was painstaking.
I guess it’s a good thing when wins are hard to stomach, but the issues on offense are alarming. I’m not ready to throw in the towel with Hoyer but the inaccuracy and the constant staring down targets is getting hard to watch. The run-game-blame goes to the O-line as our backs are stranded as soon as they receive a hand-off.
Side note: What was up with Solomon Wilcots acting like Derek Carr was the second coming of Joe Montana? He even praised him after incomplete passes. And the Raiders, as a winless team, punting with 4th and inches at midfield in the first quarter reeked of Shurmur Browns. Glad those days are behind us.
Browns have had some terrible commentators this year.
Not sure if the line was that bad again or Hoyer is just average lately, but the offense was brutal. Oh and whichever genius announcer said losing Mack can’t be that a big a deal, he’s an all pro center.
The defense looked great in stretches today. Still not enough consistent pressure on the QB, but the run defense showed up. To only give up 6 points during meaningful play is great no matter who you’re playing. Also…takeaways. Nice.
Here’s something that still confuses me. Why not send extra guys against inexperienced QBs. That’s what finally shook Carr. They started sending 5 and 6 rushers, and Carr started having trouble locating receivers. Why not do this more on obvious passing downs?
On offense, not nearly as impressive. Where has the run game gone? Alex Mack is surely missed, but they can’t go back to last year’s rush “attack” and expect to win. As far as I’m concerned, the outcome of the entire season will depend on the ability to return to a solid running game. Hoyer doesn’t lose many games for you, but he isn’t solid enough as a passer to excel without a play action element to the offense, and play action requires a running attack.
As far as the “Hoyer vs. Manziel” debate that you’re trying to avoid by bringing it up without any prompting…Hoyer’s essentially a neutral impact on the offense. Given the recent track record for Brown’s QBs, I’ll take neutral over the rookie, but if Hoyer hopes to catch on as a late-career starting QB, he needs to show an ability to create opportunities rather than simply take advantage of wide open receivers. He’s played well enough to be the uncontested starter to finish the season (we should be so lucky), but he’s yet to have that “ah ha!” moment, if that makes sense.
On the “Shurmur” comment…I totally agree. I feel quite confident with the current coaching staff. It was nice to see Pettine learn from his mistake last week and kick the third field goal to take a two score lead rather than get antsy and go for it on 4th down. You’d prefer 6, but going for it and getting stuffed gives momentum to steam that, until that point, couldn’t get much of anything going on offense.
I can’t agree more with the pass rushing comment, especially because they seem to have a lot of success when aggressively rushing the passer (i.e. first half of Saints game) and the Hoyer comment. Hoyer looked great when the backs were consistently gouging 6-8 yards per carry and he could sit back and hit open receivers. He just simply isn’t the type of quarterback that can make plays on his own.
Two other quick notes…
What is with the Browns finding a way to receive the ball with 2 mins or less to go in a half and SOMEHOW give the ball back to the opponent with plenty of time to score? They’ve gotta start making sure they end the half with the ball.
Also, not sure where else to put this…the refs. There are SO MANY flags now. Everything is a penalty! Enough already! Line indication that there are too many flags now, every game features 2 to 3 flags followed by the ref explaining that there “Is no penalty for…” The refs are so flag-happy, it’s now an uncontrollable reflex.
I really think the secondary is good enough to defend anyone one on one…for 2-3 seconds. That’s why pressure is so key.
It seems like the blitzes work. I would think they’d only want to use them more with the injuries along the D line.
hoyer blows. im not sure manziel will be better but hoyer is pretty bad.
This is NOT an endorsement of Johhny but I’m pretty sure Brian will be enjoying a nice contract in one of 31 other cities next year.
Wilcots is quite possibly the worst broadcaster in the history of EVER!
Please forgive me but I was reading posts on espncleveland and now I have to wash my consciousness out with lye.
How many teams in the NFL would the Browns have beaten today? Maybe the Raiders and Jets?
Beasley Reece
My exact thoughts after that Raiders LB dropped the INT attempt Hoyer chucked over the middle into double coverage.
Well, I guess Alex Mack was worth every penny, eh?
Add Dansby to the list above. He is paying some really good football right now. And Whitner finally delivered a hit that meant something. On the other hand, Mingo is absolutely horrible. He does get plenty of camera time standing around the the tackled ball carrier at the end of every play. so there’s that.
Losing Mack is turning out to be huge. No running game equals no play action. Teams are exposing Hoyer’s weakness in the intermediate and deep passing game. Rough go the rest of the year. Maybe getting Gordon back will help make a difference.
Not a big JFF fan and I really like Hoyer, but the calls for JFF are not unwarranted. Hoyer could maybe Dilfer us to a big game if everything else falls into place, but he has real accuracy and arm strength issues. He’s the third best QB in the division, and I bet there are a ton of Bengals fans that would argue with that. He’ll never be better than Flacco or Ben and Dalton has more upside.
Pettine is playing a take what they give you offense, which will keep them in a lot of games and give them chances to win. But they won’t be able to go out and destroy teams.
On third down…
On offense: Why does every team the Browns play have a quick pass route that works for 6 yards or so, and every pass the Browns run take 3 seconds to develop that allow pressure to get to Hoyer?
On defense: Why do opponents know to send pressure to force a quick throw when the Browns mostly send 3 or 4 and hope to stop the first down with the secondary?
Please reverse all of these trends. I think the Browns were something awful like 1 for 10 on third down until partway through the 4th.
Edit: I just looked at the team stat line in an attempt to confirm my 3rd down conversion stats, but I was forced to look away when I realized the Browns lost every statistical category except takeaways (3 to 0)…and let’s be honest, between Hoyer’s near picks and whatever that was from Benjamin on the punt return, there should have been at least two giveaways.
Rushing yards, passing yards, first downs, time of possession, number of plays run…all to the raiders.
There is an old trope that any QB can win a few games in the NFL until they get tape on him (see colt mccoy, kelly holcomb, etc). I’m hoping that this isnt what is happening to Brian Hoyer. D-Coordinators watching tape and taking away his strengths. The great QBs can adjust and have too many ways to beat you. Again, I hope this isnt true…but it might be.
they arent going to put the good guys on the browns/raiders…
The fact the Hoyer can’t “win” you games and simply tries to play safe and not loose can only lead to 8 wins at best with our easy schedule. He needs to actually make a play on a 3rd and 10 for me to even entertain the fact that he should start the rest of the year or beyond. They run so many bootleg play action passes with a QB that seems afraid to run which completely defeats the purpose of bootlegs. I’m all for sitting JFF and letting him learn but squeaking by a horrible Raiders team isn’t helping Hoyer’s chances at a new contract.
The defense has made these past 2 games very winnable which is a good sign that they are learning the scheme and playing football again. They should only get better throughout the year with the talent they have.
All in all, its just nice to not have to look at mock drafts halfway through the season!!!
3 days til Cavs…
1.6YPC – that is what our rushing offense did today. that makes the days of McGahee look good. If you cannot run the ball, then you need an elite QB or elite WRs to be able to pass the ball. We do not have them.
Let’s be thankful that our defense has looked good (enough) since the bye week and hope that we figure out the running game soon.
At one point, they referenced our Pro Bowl center, Alex Smith.
All:
I agree with Craig on the Johnny Manziel/Hoyer thing. Hoyer should have been picked a lot of times this year, and if the raiders made some of those INTs yesterday, that would have been a WIN for the raiders and not the Browns.
I am starting to like manziel more and more due to the real hoyer coming out. However, what if Hoyer does improve with Gordon and a healthy Jordan Cameron? Do we want a rookie out there then? I think Hoyer would be one of the very best backup QBs in the NFL. You can win with Hoyer if you have the pieces around him. I am not sure you can beat a team with an elite QB with him. Look at Pittsburgh yesterday. They are not THAT good, but when their QB is on fire, look what they can do. I think our team is better than theirs this year (though it is close), but I would take the team with the better QB every time.
All we seem to do is talk about QBs over the years. I was convinced Quinn was better than Anderson, but Anderson is still in the NFL and has a winning start this year if memory serves me correct. Even Colt McCoy is starting… This tells me, maybe I don’t know anything about QBs…
This being said, I guess the Browns beat Brees and the Saints this year, but I don’t think that performance would be repeated now…
Well, Without an effective run game there is no way they can run out the clock.
I agree with you on the flags. i think the first couple plays of the game had flags followed by “there is no penalty…”
Hughes looked stout, buuuuut, he’s hurt. :/
Un-related comment. I live in chicago and getting browns news is tough, so I come here. Can anyone respond to this post and give me a link or a statement on John Hughes. I really hope he did not have his knee busted up. We need him as depth expecially with Winn and Taylor still nursing injuries, and that is a concern…
He’s scheduled for an MRI today.
Upvoted for the use of Dilfer as a verb.
I am also not implying that Hoyer be benched right now, but I believe we do now know he is not the future of the Browns QB. I am glad a contract was not in place after the PIT game.
Regarding Hoyer, is anyone else worried about the health and safety of the WR/TE’s we do have? It seems to me that even the most well run routes and open receivers are only a completion most of the time because of a dive or leap and catch, leaving them in a terribly vulnerable position like Cameron was yesterday. At what point will they will stop diving and leaping in fear of their own safety?
For the love of all that is holy, we had better not find a way to lose to the bucs next week. That is a truly terrible team.
Or almost any Browns game.
Worst football broadcaster? ESPN has a lock on the worst basketball and baseball that’s for sure.
At least it was a win.
Don’t tease me!
His accuracy is less then stellar been that way for a few weeks now.
I managed to talk the wife into going out to watch the game at BW-3, and put off her birthday dinner at Ruth’s Chris til Friday.
Not sure what penalty I’ll have to pay, but the Cavs better win.
Sounds like my third wife!
…and both times, I went with my Dad. As the 4th started he noted that we hadn’t been to a game together where there was a TD since 2004. Thank you, Andrew Hawkins. (And in both games, the Browns led by a FG at the half and were booed by the fans.)
Dang. I thought his name was Kevin Mack.
Oh, we’ll find it. We’ll mine for it like it’s a precious jewel. We’ll scour the desert for it as if it’s an oasis of sweet, fresh water. We’ll go to the ends of the earth to obtain it as if it’s the Holy Grail filled with elixir from the Fountain of Youth.
Then we’ll roll out of bed and soundly crush the Bengals and Texans.
It’s Alex P. Keaton.
LOVED Michael Keaton in Batman.
I believe I read somewhere that early on the over zealous pass rushing was causing issues with our DB’s (also partly the new “no touching, ever” rules) so they scaled back the rush. The last few weeks you can see our DBs becoming more and more comfortable (Haden) and thus allowing for a more aggressive pass rush.
I wish the Bills would be giving us a reason to look, though :).
Agree, he was good in Batman, but he was great in American Hustle.