The Manziel vs. Hoyer debate, Serial podcast and more – WFNY Podcast – 2014-12-04
December 4, 2014Hoyer’s leash, playoff tickets, Ohio City Singers and more… While We’re Waiting
December 5, 2014Cleveland Cavaliers (10-7) 90
New York Knicks (4-16) 87
[Box Score]
The New York Knicks are a mess. Just a really bad basketball team right now. They are the second worst team in the NBA this season. This could be the worst team in Knicks history if they don’t figure out what they’re doing. And for much of this game, it looked like they were going to beat the Cleveland Cavaliers for the second time this season.
Basketball is a strange game sometimes. Things like this happen all the time. We’ve seen plenty of it from the other side of the equation the past couple of years. There have been plenty of games over the last four seasons where a really bad Cavaliers team played a really good team and the Cavaliers either gave the better team a fight to the end or even occasionally won the game outright. These things happen.
Which isn’t to say any Cavs fans should feel overly great about this win. The Cavaliers played like garbage for the most part. But still, I’m going to be a broken record this season, but things aren’t as bad as they seem when you’re losing and they’re not as good as they seem when you’re winning. Seventeen games into the season, nothing is final and there are definitive takeaways to be had. We are in the middle of the beginning of something, and everything is nebulous.
So no, this wasn’t a game for overreactions and no, this wasn’t a game for rejoicing. It was just an earl December NBA game in which the Cavaliers clearly didn’t have the best night yet found a way to pull out a win in a game they probably should have lost. Both sides of that coin matter to varying degrees, both the positives and negatives. It’s all part of this process that we are watching this team go through.
Now lets get into the numbers…
- 37 – Where else would we start? Kyrie Irving had 37 points on 12 of 18 shooting with just three turnovers. I’m not going to even dignify the talk about his assist total in this game. Anyone talking about assists clearly didn’t watch this game. Kyrie was simply sensational. With his teammates struggling, looking lethargic, and making sloppy plays all over the place, Kyrie put this team on his shoulders and went to work. His energy on both sides of the floor was high all game long and he wasn’t forcing anything on offense. 41.7% of Kyrie’s FGs came off assists. He was working off the ball and letting his teammates set him up for his points. Without Kyrie, the Cavaliers would have had no chance of winning this game. He gave his team exactly what they needed.
- 19/5/12 – LeBron James scored 19 points, had 5 rebounds, and tallied 12 assists. This wasn’t one of LeBron’s better games, no. He looked out of it for much of the first three quarters. There was talk on Twitter about whether LeBron was perhaps injured, or showing signs of aging, or tired from tending to his newborn daughter at night. It’s as if people forgot LeBron was just named Eastern Conference Player of the Week last week. I get it, we’re not used to seeing so many slightly “off” nights for LeBron. If LeBron still looks like this come spring, there will really be something to worry about. But to his credit, LeBron woke up and made some big plays for the team in the fourth quarter to help the Cavaliers take over the lead and hang on to it. Some of LeBron’s slow night might be attributed to his willingness to play more of a PG role and keep feeding the hot hand in Kyrie Irving, but that doesn’t explain the lethargic defensive effort we saw in the first three quarters. Nobody needs to be worried or panicking about LeBron right now, but the Cavaliers absolutely need more consistent effort from LeBron to truly start turning the corner to what this team is capable of becoming.
- 20 to 3 – The Knicks scored 20 second chance points to just 3 for the Cavaliers. We all thought the Cavaliers were going to be an elite rebounding team, but that couldn’t be further from reality right now. Once again the Cavaliers were outrebounded, tonight by a 47 to 33 margin. The Knicks had 17 offensive rebounds to just 6 for the Cavaliers. That’s not a typo. The Cavaliers managed just 6 offensive boards on a night in which they shot just 45.7% from the field. That is just inexcusable effort on the glass. Kevin Love did have 11 boards and Shawn Marion had 6. But Anderson Varejao and Tristan Thompson managed just 3 rebounds each, the same number as Kyrie Irving had. That’s just not good enough. The Cavs frontcourt made Amare Stoudemire look like he was still in his late 2000’s prime.
- 10 – The Cavaliers bench scored just ten (10!) points. The Knicks bench scored 42 points. This is beyond unacceptable. It’s a miracle the Cavaliers won this game when you look at these bench scoring numbers and the second chance points. It’s pretty clear the Cavaliers don’t have the kind of depth you need to be an elite NBA team. The starters are fine. They don’t always click yet, but there’s more than enough talent there to compete with anyone. But until they find some bench production, the Cavaliers are going to continue to struggle and have to fight and scratch for wins. The Cavs have a pair of recent top five picks coming off the bench along with a solid veteran presence in Mike Miller. On paper that sounds fine. But with Dion really struggling, Tristan not finding his niche yet, and Miller looking his age, the Cavaliers just don’t have enough ammunition coming off the bench. This team could really use Matthew Dellavedova right now, and I’m not sure I expected to ever write that.
- 20 – Finally, I have to give some kudos to Tim Hardaway Jr who scored 20 points off the bench for the Knicks. Hardaway gave the Knicks the kind of performance the Cavaliers would give anything to have from a bench player. Hardaway shot 8 of 14 from the floor including 4 of 8 from three point range. He was knocking down outside shots but was also still aggressive going into the lane. With Carmelo Anthony scoring just 9 points for the Knicks, it was Hardaway who picked up the scoring slack to put the Knicks in position to win. Unfortunately for him (and the Knicks), it just wasn’t enough to overcome Kyrie Irving’s brilliant night.
Tomorrow night the Cavaliers are at it again, playing the Toronto Raptors in Toronto. The Cavaliers have actually played pretty well on the second night of back to backs this season. They’ll need to play much better as a team, from the bottom to the top, to beat a very tough Raptors team even without DeMar DeRozan.
22 Comments
Maybe it’s because I haven’t watched to many Cavs games this year, but did anyone find it odd that Kyrie inbounded the ball multiple times in this game? A guard usually isn’t doing that (and I’m surprised the Knicks didn’t take advantage of that).
Blatt’s rotations were again strange last night as he played the Big 3 for nearly the entire 3rd quarter. Once Delly gets back, I hope he finally settles on a consistent rotation.
I’m glad the Cavs didn’t extend Tristan and I think it’s proving to be a good move. He’s not a good defensive rebounder, and for a guy with his limited skills as a rim protector and offensive player, that doesn’t make him worth the contract he’s trying to get.
This was the first Cavs game I watched this season. I think I picked the wrong one. Some observations:
1. It looked like almost everyone is relying on everyone else’s talent instead of stepping up and doing their jobs. 2. Whenever Dion Waiters doesn’t have the ball, he seems to wave his arms around like a crazy person to get it. Even if he’s barely over the half-court line. It’s almost embarrasing. 3. They seem to have zero energy at all times.
On the ugly wins theme, just wanted to point out after our ugly win against the Bucks the other night they took Dallas to a last second shot the next night. I got curious and looked at the Knicks final scores, they’ve only had 2-3 games lost by more than 10 points. Even bad teams can make you work for a win.
I think my only complaint about winning right now is that we are totally starter dependent, those guys are playing 35 plus a night and it is going to have an effect in the playoffs. Dion is the runaway favorite to win my JJ Hickson WTF/SMH award, I just can’t watch him anymore. If we were gutting out ugly wins but the starters were only going 32/35 min a night I’d be much more at ease.
I think some of Lebron’s perceived passivity comes from the fact that he is starting to become a full time point forward. Kyrie is playing off the ball, and Lebron looks like he is trying to get looks for everyone else before himself. There is no other player in the league that is asked to be both Magic and Michael, sometimes on the same night. Plus he’s also already at the point in his career where he knows how long the season is and he isn’t going to expend one bit of energy he doesn’t have to.
I’m kinda shocked that after the past 4 years of eating prison grade hamburger meat people are complaining about sirloin. Its not filet but dammit its pretty good.
Sorry so long, new baby and all, I only get to vent once in a while.
They like to have LeBron use his massive size to post up his defender on those inbound passes. It actually makes for a pretty easy way to get the ball in so long as the inbound pass isn’t coming from the corner where Kyrie has no angle to pass it.
where’s that guy who was arguing with me about Kyrie Irving not being a top-5 OFFENSIVE player in this league? Does he even watch the games?
Delly and Dion were really effective when they played together last year. I want to say that their various 5-man units with more than just a few minutes of floor time all had good +/- values. I’m hoping they can get that chemistry going again.
good observations, all. I will make one point: Milwaukee is a darn feisty team. They’re much better than the Bucks of old, and I can see them being the team nobody wants to play in the first round of the playoffs. They’re pretty good.
Yep, exactly. It’s funny, people act like this isn’t how the Heat played the last couple of years. I can’t tell you how many Heat games I watched (rooting against them) where they were playing some crummy team who had a lead on them in the fourth quarter, then BANG they jump their game up to a level that the other team can’t reach and suddenly it’s a win for the Heat. That was exactly what I saw last night. LBJ conserving effort for 3 quarters, then going hard in the 4th. Bear in mind, the Cavs are on a road back-to-back. They play the top team in the East tonight (Toronto, who already beat the Cavs once… easily I might add).
I’ve said for a couple of years now, his offensive game is simply amazing and if his defense ever caught up, he’d be approaching MVP levels. There is no offensive skill set that isn’t in his possession. I hope that Cavs fans truly appreciate what they are seeing from him… you won’t see another player like him anytime soon.
And I wanted Derrick Williams. ouch.
Andrew – to be fair, re:Hardaway, last night he scored about as many points as he has scored the entire season combined. He just got hot – he’s been terrible. I still would rather have Waiters.
I think I did too :-/
To be fair, we had only seen like 13 games from Kyrie Irving at Duke and Derrick Williams had basically single-handedly powered Arizona to the Elite Eight with some very impressive shooting. I am not terribly surprised that Williams hasn’t become a star, per se, but I thought he would turn into a much better shooter. Kid shot 57% on 3-pointers his last season in college! And it wasn’t like he only shot a couple over the course of the season… averaged 2 attempts per game.
If they had lost we’d be saying “talented teams need to learn how to win games when you’re having a bad night.” Especially since the Cavs are the opponent all these team circle on their schedule.
I’m torn between really wanting Blatt to settle on a bench rotation and letting him tinker early in the season. He seems to be a brave tinkerer by nature, but maybe not used to his creativity being quashed by powerful superstars and no longer getting the benefit of the doubt he earned in three decades overseas. In a bunch of ways this guy is in a really difficult position this rookie year. Hope Emperor LeBron extends the leash a reasonable length given Blatt’s circumstances.
The thing I loved about Blatt was that when he called the time out at the end of the game and Kyrie demonstrably opposed it, Blatt didn’t back down from him. He stood his ground and made Kyrie see his point. And after the game, Kyrie said all the right things about the exchange. It was a level of maturity from Kyrie that is higher than we’ve seen at times in the past from him, and it seemed to earn Blatt some respect from Kyrie.
I actually care more about Kyrie warming up to Blatt than I do LeBron. LeBron is fine. He is who he is. But Kyrie is going to be here longer than LeBron is and in a couple years, this is going to be Kyrie’s team. It’s important that Kyrie and Blatt develop a good relationship, and I was encouraged by what happened in the game last night. Baby steps.
I thought Derrick Williams would be really good. But I was BEGGING the Cavaliers to draft Kyrie. I don’t say that in an “I told you so” kind of way. I’m wrong about plenty of things. I’m just saying it as context for why I am such a big Kyrie fan. I LOVED his game in college and I thought he would be a potential star in the NBA. I never expected him to be this great this soon, though. He has surpassed pretty much everyone’s expectations.
And yeah, he’s 22 freaking years old.
Agree Kyrie’s relationship with Blatt is central, but my concern: no athlete has ever had the power LeBron has right now, this year. If he tells Gilbert “It’s not working with this guy” that guy is gone at that moment. I also like that Blatt seems to be coaching securely. But the reality is that in his rookie year he has little power and few trustworthy allies, and a bunch of potential replacements sitting right next to him.
The Heat had a bench, though. Also, they played pretty good D, IIRC.
Last year I think they were an elite offensive team and middle-of-the-road defensive team (from an efficiency standpoint) just like the Cavs are currently. I’m fairly certain I heard someone reputable say that, but I could be wrong. Also, I’m not sure how your statement is contrary to my statement that the Heat didn’t turn it on until the 4th quarter. Both can be true.
Checked my own work… Heat were 2nd in offensive efficiency last year and 11th in defensive efficiency.
Same as you, I’m not told you so’ing but I watched Kyrie single handedly dismantle Michigan State and fell in love. Having watched the abomination that Byron Scott has created in LA I really have to marvel how lucky we are that Irving isn’t permanently screwed up. Its insane that he is still an NBA head coach when his offense seems designed to only result in contested 18 foot jumpers (really makes sense why he loved Dion so much), and he still is unaware how to design a defense that acknowledges that sometimes teams will set screens for a ball handler.
But, but…Dion’s got swagger! Yeah, I’m with you on him. He’s one, if not the biggest, problem they need to solve right now. And that needs to be in the form of a trade or finding a role that fits him (and he’s capable of producing in). Personally, I’d be fine if they wanted to cut bait and jettison him now. I understand his trade value is low, but someone may be willing to take a chance on him for a decent return.
PS. Congrats on the baby.