Video: Kyrie Irving gets a Gatorade bath following 55-point night
January 29, 2015Karlos Dansby, Joe Haden defend Johnny Manziel
January 29, 2015Good morning and Happy Thursday, WFNY-ers!
Did anybody catch the Cavs game last night? If you didn’t, you missed one of the best individual performances in Cavalier franchise history, courtesy of Kyrie Irving. When word came down that the wine and gold would be LeBron-less last night, the mind immediately jumped to that 1-8 record without him this year. Kyrie has been in the position before far too much, forced to try to do it all offensively as the defense heavily shifts toward stopping him. Last night, however, with his sweet shooting stroke and a little inventiveness on the offensive sets, Irving continued to get good shots off. His career-high 55 points trails only LeBron’s 56 on the road against the Raptors in a 2005 loss in Cavalier lore.
Timofey Mozgov finished second on the team in scoring with 12 points. Irving had to take 36 of the team’s 85 shots during 39 minutes on the court. In essence, Kyrie had to do it all by himself offensively after starting 0-for-7 from the field against one of the best teams that the West has to offer, and he simply did it. It was a big moment from the downer of losing James to keep the momentum of the eight-game winning streak going.
I know the Hawks are 31-2 in their last 33 games and have won 17 straight, but that’s no excuse for giving them four All-Stars and snubbing someone like Irving, who is a dynamically better player than he was one year ago when he was selected and won the game’s MVP award. When the East reserves are announced on Thursday evening, Irving’s name is a no-brainer to turn up. Last night was only an exclamation point on the statement that Kyrie’s been making all season at both ends of the floor.
Marc Stein of ESPN has Irving in with three Hawks (Korver omitted). Three of the four CBS Sports guys have Irving in (Oh hi, Matt Moore choosing Brandon Knight instead!)
I’m not saying the Hawks couldn’t get four guys, but the Cavaliers had to scratch and claw to get TWO guys representing them when they were rolling through the league like this in 2009, and it was only after LeBron campaigning and a Jameer Nelson injury that Mo Williams got in!
Sorry, Atlanta, you’ve been great, but you should be more than satisfied with three All-Stars.
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On the flip side, Kevin Love was pretty bad. He shot just 3-of-15, contributing 10 points and 12 rebounds. His shooting touch is off, and other than an early charge taken, he was basically a non-factor on defense yet again. Right now, after the first quarter of most games, Love is functioning only as a decoy on offense and as a rebounder. If it is Love’s back spasms that are limiting him, then he needs to be sat down for some rest, much like the tough decision the Cavs had to make with James last month.
I admire Love for gutting it out, given that Brendan Haywood is the only big on the bench not in the rotation and to call him serviceable would be a stretch. But, this team has to be thinking about their health come April. Having this form of Love is not going to get the Cavaliers where they need to go. I’ve been very hard on Love, and I’m going to continue to be until his game either improves or the Cavs sit him down. The Cavaliers aren’t likely in danger of dropping past the fifth seed in the East, and they should probably err on the side of caution when it comes to health for later in the playoff push.
Speaking of playoffs, what if the conferences were no more? Well, the Cavaliers *would* likely be playing for something more meaningful as they sit 13th currently and would have a first-round matchup with the Blazers they saw last night, per Grantland’s Kirk Goldsberry. If the Bucks passed them right now, they’d fall to sixth and avoid Atlanta in the second round potentially. If the Bucks passed them in this proposal, the Cavs would be playing the best team overall, Golden State.
I’m not typically a fan of this type of stuff. I think conferences and divisions exist for geographic and rivalry reasons. The West has traditionally been better, but the East has often had a few, elite teams over the past decade with the West having more parity.
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Last Saturday morning, after a tiring week of work travel, I woke up in Westlake at about 5:00 am, drove to where I grew up in Marblehead, picked up two of my college buddies, and we headed down to Columbus for the Ohio State national championship celebration. We were three of 45,000 fans that packed the lower bowl of the ‘Shoe to hear Urban Meyer, Gene Smith, and select members of the coaching staff and players talk about their season’s journey. In case you were wondering, 45k beat the annual home attendance of four conference schools (Indiana, Illinois, Purdue, Northwestern) as well as those salty TCU Horned Frogs.
I remember thinking about how much effort six plus hours of driving would be for a one-hour celebration. But, I’m glad we went. We stopped at Adriatico’s for a sheet of delicious Sicilian pizza and spent the afternoon walking around campus and reminiscing. It was good for the soul, and it reminded me of how much I enjoyed my eight years in Columbus and five years on OSU campus.
The guys over at Eleven Warriors are the best in the business when it comes to Ohio State reading. Period. If you haven’t seen any of their game posters that come out prior to each game, they are an artistic treat. This one is their masterpiece to commemorate the national title, courtesy of Walt Keys.
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Super Bowl week is upon us, and I probably couldn’t be less excited for the game. It involves two teams many thought would be here. One I actively despise due to their former Browns coach and Michigan quarterback. The other won the Lombardi last year and has plenty of personalities that I’d rather leave than take. But, I hope the game is close, the commercials are solid, and Katy Perry puts on a good performance at halftime. I’m actually going to a friend’s house on Sunday (weather permitting), which strangely enough I think counts as my first “Super Bowl party”.
I guess this Browns draft Q&A over at Dawgs By Nature (I will now forever smile when I see Mariota in an Oregon uniform same as I did when I see Ken Dorsey in his Miami gear) will have to keep you warm on a cold Sunday night in January if you lack excitement for the game.
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I leave you guys with “Six Times Dion Waiters Should Have Gotten The Ball”
Make it a good one, ladies and gents!
19 Comments
The West is deeper for sure, but the Spurs and the Lakers have been the only “elite” teams out of the West to win a Championship in the last decade+. I guess you can kind of toss the Mavs in there as “Elite-lite.”
It sort of reminds me of the SEC this year. Strongest conference top to bottom, but their top is not better than the top of the other conferences.
Mmmmm . . . Adriatico’s.
Moore tends to be anti-Cavs, so not surprising.
His career-high 55 points trails only LeBron’s 56 on the road against the Raptors in a 2005 loss in Cavalier lore.
I prefer to think of it as Kyrie has the most individual points for the Cavs in a win.
I agree with you Ben completely. Also…
what if the conferences were no more?
The thing that this misses out on is that it would destroy the highly entertaining Western Conference race this year. Keeping the CFP comparison, one of the reasons that the regular season didn’t suffer with the addition of the title game was that there weren’t enough seats at the table for all the conferences. So, someone was getting left out and it made every game in the regular season more important (especially OOC games). When the CFP expands to 8 teams and every conference champ gets in (too much $$$ to think it won’t happen), then the Big10 fan won’t care about the BigXII title game as much because both winners get in (though the wild card slots would still be up for debate).
Same with the Western conference. You have 10 playoff worthy teams. You have 8 spots. So, they are all fighting tooth and claw from early on in the year to obtain those 8 spots and we are getting great games out of it. In the past, Pops wouldn’t have worried about sending Timmy out for a 3rd OT just for some random regular season game. This year he did it in back-to-back games because he knows he may need every last win he can get (too bad they lost both).
If you do away with conferences, then there are going to be teams that better understand that it’s a marathon and not a sprint (like the Cavs and I think Bulls thus far) and less teams that keep the accelerator all the way to the floor (like GS & Atlanta are doing).
yeah, not many reasons to pick Brandon Knight over Kyrie Irving unless he is just trying to be different.
He has some pretty epic arguments with Cavs Twitter, particularly the FTS guys. He’s a stubborn guy and doesn’t like to admit when he’s wrong.
Doesn’t that describe the majority of people who talk about sports, especially when we’re describing someone who has a different thought process than us?
I don’t see why Atlanta can’t get four guys, especially in this conference. Heck, their fifth best player this year has been one of the top 20 players in the East.
The only other team in the top five in both offensive and defensive efficiency is Golden State. Atlanta gets it done on both sides of the ball. I know that the ASG is a glorified pick up game where people who play like Irving shine more, but if we’re rewarding the guys who have been the best at doing things that win basketball games that count, the Hawks have a lot of them to chose from.
True… I just find Matt Moore a bit more obnoxious than most others. He has some good takes as well though, so worth putting up with.
I admittedly don’t read him, or any of the CBS Sports guys for that matter, no reason why that site never makes my rotation, so I’m not familiar with his shtick or arguments with Cavs fans.
Moore is the usual companion with Zach Harper on CBS’s Eye on Basketball podcast. It’s pretty entertaining. They slant a little more towards the stat nerd angle without having a boring show that is just throwing a bunch of numbers at people.
I know that the ASG is a glorified pick up game where people who play like Irving shine more, but if we’re rewarding the guys who have been the best at doing things that win basketball games that count
you are letting your Kyrie-hate shine through a bit there. Win Shares is a measure of what you do on the basketball court that helps teams win basketball games that count and Kyrie has 5.9 this season. No Atlanta Hawk has a higher number.
VORP shows the value over a replacement player. Only Millsap and Korver have a higher number on the Hawks than Kyrie’s 3.6.
I’m not saying Irving should be out. In fact, I think he will finally be deserving of his likely selection, and would find it a bit humorous if he’s not on the roster this year.
My only point here was that the Hawks had four guys easily worthy of the ASG. Four of the top 9 in WS and WS/48, four of the top 11 in VORP, to continue with your numbers.
And my Kyrie-“hate” shines through all the time. I think he’s closer to the 30th best player in the league than the 10th. I think we can get a top-10 like haul in a trade for said 20-30th best player in the game, and guys who fit better around our better players – Lebron and (healthy) Love to boot. That’s the extent of my Irving-“hate”.
I hoped you would take the Kyrie-hate term in stride. Thanks.
On Kyrie, I don’t know where he is currently as far as overall ranked players though I’m guessing I’d have him in the top20. I do think he’ll be a top10 player in his prime though (still 2-4 years away). He has constantly made strides offensively and we are seeing true defensive improvement this season. And, I am not sure that Love is a better player specifically because of his defensive issues (I’d probably have them ranked similarly though right now Love would be down presumably due to injury). And, I would never trade a top20 guy who is 22yo and you believe is getting better because getting an equal return on him is going to be near impossible.
As far as the Hawks, they are more of a sum of the parts type of team, so it makes it difficult to assess. Korver is a great example as his USG% is a big reason his PER is so low, but his WS/48 is also lowest among their 4 legit allstar candidates. But, USG% is important because there are others who directly affect the games more because they are forced to (where Korver can just play to his strengths in Atlanta). And, yes, I think all 4 are legit candidates. I don’t think I’d put all 4 guys on the team as there are lots of other worthy candidates as well.
Despite his injury and the fans’ perception, I think Love has still been a better defender this year. The numbers bear out that the Cavs have been better defensively with Love on the floor than without. The numbers bear out that the opposite is true for Irving.
Yes, I’d say Irving has improved too, but he still has a long way to go to not be a huge defensive liability. And Love has at least demonstrated mediocrity on that end of the court when healthy. Maybe I’m assuming too much about Love’s ability to get back to 100% though. Back injuries and big guys isn’t a good combination.
Maybe there isn’t an ideal trade out there. Challenge trades don’t really happen in the NBA, which is a shame. I think it’s an ideal league to try something like that. But I’d still dangle the heck out of him. On a longer contract and that young, I think you’ll get a lot more than the typical star deal in the NBA. I think you can sell incredibly high on what his actual value is right now, maybe more than any other player in the league. Try to take advantage of that.
Maybe it is a sum of the parts thing in Atlanta, and they are outplaying their projected record by a noteworthy amount. But they are still getting incredible individual performances, and I’m not sure what is difficult to assess. We understand how they have such a great record. It’s just that we’ve been told before that names on the back of the jerseys, while good, aren’t this good.
Irving v. Love
82games is a week behind (but that would only further help Kyrie’s stats if we update it):
82games.com
Irving (Own/Opp) 20.9/17.5
Irving (On/Off +/-) +4.2/-9.4
Irving (On/Off Eff.) 1.13/1.10
Love (Own/Opp) 20.7/18.9
Love (On/Off) +2.3/-3.3
Love (On/Off Eff.) 1.11/1.09
As far as top 5-man units, all the best defensive ones have both Irving & Love in them (with any significant minutes) except for a couple:
Irving-JR.Smith-James-Thompson-Mozgov 1.20(off) 0.97(def)
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really, everything is splitting very fine hairs, but they seem to slightly favor Kyrie (again before the past week where his play has improved and Love’s has gone down a bit).
You’ve got to go to the player page to see individual on off court.
Defense with Irving on the court gives up 110.5 pp100, 109 with him off. Love is 109.4 on 111.8 off. It’s only a couple points, but it without a doubt favors Love. A hurt Love is still a more useful defensive player than Irving.
The offense is much better with Irving on the court. The defense is worse.
Ok, i see that. Not definitive though since the individual match up goes the other way. I’d go toss up for now on defense, clear Irving on offense.