LeBron’s timing is strange and Kanye is the worst: While We’re Waiting…
February 10, 2015Can’t Stand the Tweets? Get Out of the Kitchen
February 10, 2015Most Cleveland Cavaliers fans probably missed the Grantland Basketball Hour, which aired Sunday night, because they were busy complaining about music/watching the Grammy’s, or catching The Walking Dead and the premiere of Better Call Saul on AMC. Meanwhile, Jalen Rose, Ryen Russillo, and Bill Simmons were counting down Simmons’ top 60 trade assets in the league and debating the selections.
Bill Simmons has written his NBA Trade Value column nearly every year since 2001, and it’s always a must-read for hardcore NBA fans because it has a few wrinkles that make it more interesting than an ordinary “best player” list, and—though often wrong—Simmons is an obsessive basketball fan whose opinions on these matters are valuable even when they primarily reveal flaws in some prevailing schools of basketball thinking.
For those unfamiliar with the column, the basic idea is that a player is a better trade asset than all those ranked below him—if you’re the GM with the higher-ranked player, you would not trade him straight-up with any player ranked lower, but would trade him for any player ranked higher. Contracts matter, salaries matter, and ages matter. Only the first half of the written column has run, and the first televised incarnation of the list is (temporarily, at least) on YouTube, and is scheduled to re-air on Saturday. (Reddit user saintscanucks posted the list.) Anyway, it’s a very entertaining special that’s worth watching, even if it’s not hard to find disagreements. Russillo and Simmons should collaborate more often—they make good adversaries.
Kevin Love came in at 52nd on the list, a precipitous drop from his vaunted position of 20 on the 2013 list. Andrew Wiggins was ranked startlingly high at 21, though there’s no sense fretting about that for Cavs fans. Although maligning Love is the trendy thing to do, the temporary nature of his contract would make him hard to trade (not that the Cavs would want to).
In what was almost certainly a surprise to many, LeBron James finished in second behind young stud Anthony Davis, now on the New Orleans Pelicans. LeBron had been the top trade asset on every version of the list dating back to 2007, an astounding run. While the case for LeBron to be at the top is still a compelling one, Anthony Davis has a PER of 31.7 so far this season—and he’s only 21 years old. To put that in perspective, there have only been 18 player seasons in which the player exceeded a PER of 30.0 with at least 1000 minutes (LeBron has four of those player seasons), and Anthony Davis would be the youngest to do so by two years. LeBron has also surpassed the staggering 40,000 minute mark, has a much more expensive contract than Davis, and briefly showed signs of mortality earlier in the season, so it’s reasonable to rank Davis ahead of him as a trade asset.
Of course, David Griffin would pee his pants laughing if the Pelicans called and offered Anthony Davis for LeBron James. James is too important to the city and gives the Cavs too good a chance to win this season’s title. I think a lot of GMs would also take into account what James does from a marketing standpoint. But asking whether you’d like to have James for the next ten years of Davis is a fascinating thought experiment.
But the most frustrating thing for Cavs fans is Kyrie Irving’s ranking as only the 26th best trade asset in the league. His 5 year/$90 million deal is pricey, sure. But Cavs fans have to continue to endure conversations about like the one below in basketball circles everywhere, with the ostensible topic “Why is Kyrie so polarizing?”
Jalen Rose: The thing that makes him polarizing, is that he plays point guard, and he’s terrific at isolation. So if you’re closer to 20-25, then you are to 10 assists, and it’s not traditional, people start to freak out….
Bill Simmons: He doesn’t play point guard, he plays ball hog.
Ryen Russillo: But you shouldn’t have a point guard with LeBron.
Bill Simmons: Well maybe you shouldn’t, maybe this is the right team.
Ryen Russillo: So you don’t like him, is that what we’re talking about here?
Bill Simmons: Well, I think the good prototype if it works out is Tony Parker. Who wasn’t a guy who was 10 assists a game, and was offense-first guy who fit in the team framework.
It is fine if not everyone outside of Cleveland wants to worship at the altar of Kyrie Irving and his awesomeness, but it’s also clear that many of Kyrie’s critics haven’t watched him play basketball much this season. He’s one of the most talented scorers in the league, with a rare combination of finishing ability and shooting talent. Furthermore, he’s improved significantly on defense. While he’s not particularly great at getting his teammates the ball in the right place yet, it isn’t for a lack of effort. He’s still trying to master that pocket pass that LeBron does with such ease, or the over-the-top pass to Timofey Mozgov or Tristan Thompson off the pick-and-roll. He’s a natural scorer, and a committed but still-learning distributor.
Irving cut up the Lakers on Sunday for 28 points on 10-for-14 shooting (5-of-8 from three) and 10 assists. Irving also dimed out Timofey Mozgov while shaking the entire Lakers team and threw a gorgeous alley oop to Iman Shumpert directly from out-of-bounds. Stephen Curry is the only other guard in the league who can regularly replicate that box score.
Simmons ranked the following over Irving: Mike Conley (great point guard, but much more limited offensively and ultimately replaceable), Kawhi Leonard (great for the San Antonio Spurs, but has never been an All-Star); Kyle Lowry (already 28 and has possibly peaked); Damian Lillard (defensibly ranked because his contract is cheap); and John Wall (much better at racking up assists than Irving, but is a career 31.1 percent three-point shooter). Kyrie Irving is 22 years old, and has wildly high potential for a guard for which most GMs would commit murder. But I’m taking Irving over Wall every day.
6 Comments
The Irving ranking is ridiculous. I have a hard time believing that they don’t watch many Cavs games (I mean, it’s their job to know basketball), but how else can you explain that evaluation? How can you watch Kyrie and not understand how GOOD this guy is – and is still getting better at 22.
That said, I have to agree with the Anthony Davis ranking over Lebron. I didn’t want to admit it, but during the telecast (I was watching), Simmons said, “Would you rather have Lebron for 7 years or Davis for 15.” That was the clincher. Not saying Davis is the better player right now, but time has already started to catch up. It will keep catching up, and time always wins. Besides, Anthony Davis is CRAZY good.
Simmons always liked the idea of a PG being pass-first and that just went full-blown crazy when his favorite team trotted offensive-absent Rondo on the floor for a team that won a title. It’s not the only way for a PG to play, but it’s the only way in his mind, which is fine.
I don’t see how one could reasonably argue that Memphis wouldn’t be falling over themselves to pickup Kyrie for Conley. Wall is a different beast because he is such a different player. I can see different GMs having different opinions though I would take Kyrie. Lillard is really the best comparison, but I think a GM would be short-sighted to take Lillard because of the contract as his will likely be more expensive than Kyrie’s awfully soon (though it can balance out with likely longer term control).
great points. Yeah, Davis has really won me over this year. I mean, this kid is a superstar. What remains to be seen is if he can carry a team on his own. We should never forget just how good LeBron is/was when he carried Ira Newble to the NBA finals. I mean, what?
As for Kyrie, I stated here in this forum months ago that i believed he was a top-5 offensive player in this league and i stand by my statement. Overall, I would have no problem taking John Wall, but I’d take Irving over the other guys.
no question i’d rather have the kid at his age and potential. But, today, for one game, I’d still take the King every day of the week, and twice on Sundays.
Lotta people hate on BS but I find him generally reasonable and often entertaining. Except with his anti-Kyrie take. Kyrie is simply breathtaking to watch and has really found his groove with Lebron and team. I think he fits into this offense perfectly.
All the “Mike Conley is underrated” talk has made him overrated. I like him, but he isn’t nearly as good overall as Kyrie. And when you consider how the cap is expected to jump in a few years, Kyrie’s contract is actually pretty reasonable.
Simmons must still be judging Kyrie on last year’s disappointing season. Points and assists per game are similar this season but his efficiency is way better and he’s doing it with less usage; plus his effort on defensive has been more consistent. Guy has arguably been a top 10-15 player so far this season.