Josh McCown, Browns fan rage, and more – WFNY Podcast – 2015-03-03
March 3, 2015Justin Gilbert working out with Joe Haden
March 3, 2015One thing I think pretty much everyone agrees on with regard to NFL quarterbacks is they take too much of the blame and credit. This point was illustrated in the Super Bowl this season where the Tom Brady narrative was forever cemented while he was helmet-less on the sidelines waiting to watch his defense intercept Russell Wilson’s attempted slant at the goal line with the game on the line. Of course, those are the Pats, Seahawks and the Super Bowl. We mortals are down here splitting hairs over Brian Hoyer and Josh McCown, but I digress. The point is that one of the main reasons Browns fans are so uninspired by the Josh McCown selection is due to his horrid season in Tampa. Guess what. Pretty much everyone in Tampa had a bad season. That’s what led me to dig through the Pro Football Focus site for some evidence of just how bad the Bucs were as an offensive team, as opposed to just plastering McCown with the 1-10 record and trying to let that stand as evidence of his individual suckitude.
Obviously the big caveat here is that PFF isn’t infallible either. They do their stats subjectively and by no means are they perfect. But I think what they get right is a player over time. They might be off a bit in a game here or there, but over the course of a season, I think it’s a reasonable way to get a feel for just how a unit performed. And the visuals just don’t lie that the Tampa offensive line was bad in 2014.
Just look at the names of Browns castoffs. Garrett Gilkey and Oneil Cousins make the list. Demar Dotson and Logan Mankins score in the green and Evan Dietrich-Smith scores a palatable -0.2, but it’s not good. For the season as a unit, if you add up all their scores it is a horrible -58.72 for the year across all their offensive linemen.
So, how did the Browns do?
Visually, it’s obviously a lot better, and the Browns had a host of negative scores as well, but they have some really high marks as well. Even if you believe that Joe Thomas is now overrated as he enters the later stages of his career, it can’t be by that much to truly diminish a score of 33.5. So, when you add up all the Browns scores, including some horrendous Alex Mack replacements, the Browns’ offensive line scores it’s in the green 37.3 overall. That’s a nearly 100-point swing from the Bucs to the Browns.
Last, but not least, I looked up the Bears’ PFF scores for when McCown had his most decent numbers with them.
What you see there is a team with a lot of green. In the end, when you add it up, you see a -9.7. Even though it works out to be negative for the Bears as a unit, you can see they were about 50 points better as an offensive line than Tampa was in 2014.
And if you believe Josh McCown’s own comments, the Cleveland Browns offensive line was a factor in his working out a deal with the Browns.
“It was a lot of thought and prayer. Meeting with the coaches and getting a good feel for the direction that coach (Mike) Pettine was heading with the team. Also speaking with (Owner) Mr. (Jimmy) Haslam and (General Manager) Ray (Farmer). I really felt good and they were all sending the same message. That coupled with the personnel that is there, the offense line, that was a huge factor in that and their ability to run the ball. All those things considered were big pieces in this decision.”
Now, what’s the conclusion? Not much of one, because McCown is another year older and is working with new teammates and a new offensive coordinator. It’s just to say that if Josh McCown has anything left in the tank and if he gets to play with a healthy Cleveland Browns offensive line that holds its performance from 2014, we very well might see the best that Josh McCown has to offer. Also, something of note, if all those things hold true, Browns fans might just expect to see the best of whatever other QB ends up at the top of the depth chart by the time the first game of the season rolls around.
21 Comments
Behind Thomas, Bitonio, Mack, Greco, Bowie, as long as he doesn’t fumble the handoffs to Crowell, he’ll do just fine.
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Completely agree, a healthy Browns OL will allow any QB to make the most of their skills.
Isn’t the term ‘subjective statistics’ supposed to be an oxymoron?
Im going to go a little bit off topic and wonder why browns fans are so down on Schwartz, he doesnt appear to be a huge negative and seemingly a bunch of teams are worse off at RT…
I determined 63.4% of colors are pretty
Most stats are manipulated in a way that leaves them open for interpretation, thus subjectivity.
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relative to the rest of the OL, he is the weakest link. always try to improve the weakest link.
I agree with you though that it is strange seeing ESPN dub RT as one of our highest priorities and a major 1st round target. We have plenty of spots that need an upgrade more.
Well PFF’s measures of the line are… as Craig said, “subjective” which is to say: “made up crap”. But when Schwartz gets beat, he gets his doors blown off. Big time. Like a whee baby turtle on his back.
he has poor lateral movement, which is why those fast wide-9 DE guys give him such fits. he actually might be a pretty dominant RG as he’s got good straight line punch.
Wow, I don’t think “horrendous” is a strong enough adjective to describe McDonald.
Can’t wait to see what Mack back, Bitonio in year two and Bowie involved and a possible rookie OL does to the total grade and performance.
Feel bad for whoever TB picks #1 because they gonna ruuuuun behind that line.
“I really felt good and they were all sending the same message.“ But…but…but…internal strife and dysfunction!
McCown: Is this guy better than Hoyer today? Probably not. Is he worse than Hoyer? If so, it’s debatable. Either way, was Hoyer taking us to a championship or even a playoff appearance? I don’t think so but, again, it’s debatable.
McCown was not brought here to be the starter. He may have to start at times but he was’t brought here to be the starter. He was brought here to be a backup which Bryan wasn’t willing to accept. He was brought here to be a backup requiring the least amount of prep. McCown is still expected to compete but he knows his role.
They’re not finished with this roster at QB whether through the draft or FA and they are not abandoning their first round pick after one season. Whatever moves they have yet to make they did not bring McCown here to be their 16 game starter. Whether it’s Johnny or someone not yet on the roster they’re looking for their face and intending for him to be on this team come September.
The future is now.
Yes, but no. I can find a stat to support any position I care to take.
I still think he’s rated 12th in the league. He’s not the best by any stretch but he’s not a dumpster fire. We need depth but I don’t think we need a replacement.
agreed. he is starting worthy. doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to improve on him, but let’s put more focus on OLB, NT, DE, TE, WR, CB2, and K ahead of worrying about RT.
Bullseye!
More then a few guys in free agency I’d take a look at for DT, OLB, WR & TE. In perfect world I’d like to see a top WR (Parker) drafted.
60% of the time, they work every time.
wait, So if an average QB has a good line (Hoyer) they can win some games? I’m shocked – stunned – outraged and incensed! Where is the dramatic proclamation of incompetence here? Where are the demands that Haslem sell the team? Do you KNOW anything about football?
Simply because 80% of Cleveland fans no longer understand football. The expectation is that a good offensive line stops any QB contact 100% of the time and prevents the D-line from touching the running back for at least 3 yards past the line of scrimmage. Heck, 50% of the Browns fans believe Thomas is overrated and old. Schwartz is both average and cheap. Unless the team really believes they can afford to pay 4 pro bowl offensive lineman, there is absolutely no reason to use a high draft pick on an offensive lineman. We should always draft someone for depth and competition, but it’s not a need.