Browns Friday Fumble – Arizona Cardinals – WFNY Podcast – 2015-10-30
November 1, 2015McCown to start; Haden and Gipson active in Week 8
November 1, 2015It appears those wishful thinking posts may have a hint of possibility after all. ESPN’s Adam Schefter reported early Sunday morning that Browns linebacker Paul Kruger is on the trade block. NFL Network’s Ian Rapoport adds that the team would also be willing to part with a pair of Pro Bowl offensive linemen in center Alex Mack and Joe Thomas.
The 29-year-old Kruger is making $7 million this year while being due $6.5 million next season. After recording 11 sacks last season, his productivity has dipped (along with the rest of the Browns’ defense) to just one-half a sack through Week 7. Kruger still has value as a capable pass rusher who can set the edge in run defense, but his base salaries are cumbersome and Cleveland’s defense is in a vast need of a makeover.
Mack and Thomas present a bit of a different issue as the former can opt out of his current deal this offseason and the latter is easily the best player to have suited up for the Orange and Brown since returning in 1999. Rapoport says the team has “engaged in discussions” regarding the stalwarts, and the 31-year-old Thomas is set to make north of $8 million per year through 2018. Both players were featured in “Trades We’d Like to See” pieces published this week by both networks.
Cleveland.com’s Mark Kay Cabot adds that the team is willing to part with another first-round selection in linebacker Barkevious Mingo. The NFL trade deadline is coming next week.
33 Comments
Well, as everyone knows, you can’t get better without stripping your team of what little talent it has!
The current roster is flawed and regressing. If they’re going to retool, I hope they make a total commitment and move as many valuable assets as possible – no half measures. Now, not sure I trust Farmer to execute this, but I’m behind it in principle. Ennui has set in on this season, and on the team as presently assembled
It is difficult to see any positive in this, and it is difficult to see the Browns recovering within five years if it’s true. And if they ever do recover, they will challenge Detroit for the 0-16 record before they do.
If the Browns trade multiple veterans like those mentioned, they will also have to get rid of Pettine and Farmer. They have not had success and the main argument in favor of keeping them was continuity. But continuity is nothing if they are parting ways with their good veterans. I can’t help pointing out that it has taken only half a season for Farmer to go from having (1)Six pro-bowlers, (2) the most draft picks in the NFL, and (3) the most cap space in the NFL, to having to dump his few competent players in a scramble for resources. So Pettine and Farmer and all the decent players are likely gone.
Then they start from scratch. With who? Adam Gase, the OC for the 2-4 Bears? Josh McDaniels? I would not have said this before Pettine, even though everyone else was. but at this point, no coach who has a hope of holding a minimum wage job somewhere else would have any reason to come here. So we are banking on striking gold with someone who has no hope of getting a job elsewhere.
And then we have to work on the roster. Assume we can get something like two extra firsts, seconds, thirds, and fourths for our pro-bowl and decent veterans. We have had substantially more than that over the last couple years, and ended up with Danny Shelton and Cameron Irving. In short, if the rumors are true, we are #######. I, for one, will become a fan of whatever team Thomas ends up on.
Seeing Joe Thomas play for any other team would be genuinely painful. If anyone deserves to be around if/when this franchise gets its collective act together, it’s him. But as that time may still be far off, maybe giving him a chance elsewhere would be only fair. Can we make a rule that he can only go to a genuine contender though?
As for the rest of the guys mentioned: don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, fellas.
Well said, truly sick of this nonsense.. Go Cavs
Agreed. If this does go down, then there has to be a hard reset: Farmer, the coaching staff, everybody has to go. So unless Haslam has the coaches and GM in mind to replace what we have now (and the willingness to make them the highest paid people at their respective positions, because otherwise he’s not getting them), then don’t do it. The fans will resent a purge, but even more so if there’s no sign of a plan nice it’s done.
The door would likely knock Mingo down…
“#### you, go root for Buffalo”
http://33.media.tumblr.com/c3ac224f726f35690a25b18181e0def3/tumblr_ntgbs7nwEz1qkktc4o1_400.gif
Realty should be that any player is eligible for trade at any time for the right price. Would suck to see JT leave but he won’t be elite forever. If you can get people to overpay now, I see the value.
Followed by injury, surgery, staph infection, lawsuit…
Farmer is the last guy I’d give a bunch of extra draft picks to. They may be ordering him to clean the stable for his successor.
like Russell replied I’m stunned that a mom can profit $8748 in a few weeks on the internet. pop over to this website on `my` `prof1Ie`
^^^^777777777
How is Joe Haden not on this list??
Please don’t go all Grady Sizemore on us, Browns. Don’t keep ONE guy who is good because you think it makes the team relatable to the fans. Get rid of em all.
It takes a lot of time to retool an NFL roster, and that’s if you even hit on the picks. I’m fine with moving a guy or two who isn’t going to be here, but I don’t see the benefit in trading a guy who has years of useful service left on his contract when the salary cap isn’t the thing holding the team back. I suppose they might be trying to stock up so they can throw the farm at the pick that will get them the QB of their choice. (renewed concerns about Manziel could have prompted that course of action) I can understand that, but I still wouldn’t deal Thomas or Kruger. Deal guys you think you’re going to replace anyway to somebody who thinks they can make better use of them.
Also, injuries and strength of schedule have at least a little bit to do with the regression.
“It takes a lot of time to retool an NFL roster”
I don’t know if I agree with this. Recent NFL history has seemed to show that hitting on one or two drafts can dramatically change a team’s direction.
I do agree with you about being less gung-ho about dealing Thomas since there is no heir apparent and a trade creates a gaping hold on an already underperforming line. I don’t feel comfortable putting Cam Irving in there yet, even though he played tackle at FSU (although he gives you reason to move Mack if a deal is compelling enough). Now Kruger, I can’t see much argument for keeping him. He is totally miscast in this defensive system and seems to just be playing out the string. You have Nate Orchard there, and we could use more reps from him to determine if he is a viable pro (doesn’t look good so far).
Is there any real space between Joe Haden/Pierre Desir right now? I’m hard pressed to say ‘yes’. So in other words, I agree w/ you on Thomas, but everyone else would be on the table for me.
Thomas is the only one I’d hate to lose. Trading a HoF’er seems wrong.
Mack is gone of his own free will after this year. Krueger is nice but nothing exceptional. Who would give anything for Mingo? We don’t even want him.
Savage is looking pretty good right now.
Savage beauty…
I would see them moving Bitonio over to LT and putting Erving at LG, at least as a stopgap until they can grab another LT.
I think more often than not teams that have sudden turnarounds had more talent than people outside the organization realized before it happened. I can’t think of any examples where they traded away good players right beforehand.
And I disagree on Kruger. He doesn’t have the sack totals so far, but he’s in the backfield more often than anybody. If you trade him, you’ve got to draft a pass rusher, and they go in the 1st round. You can’t get a top pass rusher, top CB, and decent QB in one draft, or even two. Mingo is the bigger underperformer. Although I agree about Orchard. He should see more playing time toward the end of the season as they evaluate things. I’d also like to see them try Armonty Bryant at OLB in this system. It seems like when he’s in the game they’re presenting more of a 4-3 front. Haden hasn’t been great this year (and especially yesterday) but he hasn’t really been healthy either. The lack of practice time shows on the field. If salary cap was an issue I’d say trade him, but replacing him isn’t simple, and this system relies on good cover corners. I’ll tell you who would have some value and isn’t a long term solution is Dansby. He’s playing well, but is over 30 and can’t keep it up much longer. If a contender had a bad injury at ILB, I bet the Browns could get a 2nd round pick for him. (which would be a crapshoot if used, but possibly would help them trade up for a top QB)
“Trading a HoF’er seems wrong.”
So does leaving a HoF’er to rot in this hell hole. Joe was loyal for a decade waiting for this FO to get it’s isht together. He deserves a chance to win, and to do it while he’s still a bonafide Pro Bowler.
Joe says he wants to be here … that says a lot. i’d keep him.
hi BEN … then who do you get for the rebuild ? and can you guarantee success ? as hard as it seems to do right now , stay the course.
hi WOOF … i’d play a.bryant over kruger at this point. he may be in the backfield , but he’s not making any plays.
Well said, I couldn’t agree more. Every GM in the NFL had to be envious of Farmer — four first round picks in two years, and he whiffed on all of them. (Well, maybe Shelton will pan out, but my hopes aren’t high.)
There is some talent on this team, but Pettine just isn’t a good enough coach to utilize it. I’m not adverse to trading a few veterans — I just don’t trust Farmer to do anything good with the resulting draft picks.
And you’re absolutely right: Why would anyone decent want to join the Cleveland Browns dumpster fire?
If there was evidence Joe wants to leave, I don’t begrudge him that. However, there is no such evidence at this point, right?
It’s not my job to hire. But someone who doesn’t botch 4 first rounders seems like a good start.
i wouldn’t have picked any of these 4 guys & think that 1st round picks should be able to contribute right away , unless you’re a QB … i’ll give you gilbert as a good bet for a bust , but you’re already calling manziel , shelton & erving busts ?
Not calling them busts but the philosophy behind drafting all of them but shelton is flawed. As I wrote somewhere else today, Manziel had addiction issues that weren’t a secret and Erving was a luxury pick that could have been better spent on a position of need.
fair enough … erving will become a need when mack walks.
That’s fair. And I fully believe Mack is leaving. But why not draft your new center in 2016 while you still have Mack on the roster, and draft an impact skill position player to make use of in 2015?
EDIT: And while I am not going to crush Shelton, the guy doesn’t appear to be a transformative D-lineman. We had Taylor, Hughes, Winn, Kitchen, etc. Besides Taylor (who is still injured), I am hard pressed to say that Shelton is any better than the others. Farmer “created” a need for Shelton by releasing a bunch of players who didn’t need to be cut.