WFNY Roundtable: Browns as tiger tamers in national spotlight

A quiet week from the Cleveland Browns after losing a 20-7 lead against the Arizona Cardinals in what ultimately served as a 34-20 defeat due to many mental mistakes and miscues plaguing their second half play. Oh, sure the team almost traded the one keystone component of the franchise since 2007 and held an embarrassing press conference where Ray Farmer was literally wiping the sweat off his face while comparing the Browns to a movie (horror or disaster movie, Ray?). But, hey, all part of being a Browns fan even if you need to acknowledge bitter catch-22’s along the way. As the short week ends, Joe Thomas is still on the team so he can shake the hand of an admiring fan next August. Sometimes, we just have to take the small victories.

Of course, I’ll gladly still take the sorry state of the football team over what was happening 20 years ago in 1995, even if that fall may still be defining Cleveland sports.

Thursday, the Cleveland Browns take on the Cincinnati Bengals while the nation watches. Well, at least whatever portion of the nation is so starved for NFL-branded football they decide watching the Browns go up against an undefeated team is the best thing they can do with their Thursday night. If you are one of those and need a primer for the game, then the WFNY staff is here to help.

WFNY Staff Week 9 Inactive List

Will: Will Gibson, concussion-like symptoms as a result of banging his head onto a desk too many times upon reading the Browns were shopping Joe Thomas on Tuesday.

The WFNY staff thereby activates Richard Pietro off of the IR-Reserved list. Richard is recovering from enjoying too much time outdoors in the beautiful fall of Northeast Ohio.

Browns offense versus Bengals defense

Is Josh McCown’s shoulder still attached to his body? On the short week, will Johnny Manziel get the start (and potentially confirm the worst fears about him)?

Craig: Johnny Manziel is getting the start and he really should. Josh McCown deserves to keep his gig at this point in the season based on his performance, but watching him carry his half-living corpse back onto the field against the Cardinals was painful. Take a game off there, chief.

Joe: As we have heard through multiple reports, Johnny Manziel is expected to start. I believe this is the right move for Josh McCown and the Browns. McCown is just not healthy enough to be the team’s starting quarterback. He could be even more seriously injured if he is hit as much as he has been over the last couple weeks. Johnny Manziel will have a tough task on a short week, but he should be starting over the injured McCown this week.

Michael: Manziel is getting the start because apparently the short week was enough for Mike Pettine to allow a hobbled McCown get some rest. Despite his rhetoric otherwise, it is quite obvious Pettine does not trust Manziel at all as McCown was visually struggling with his injuries in the second half against the Cardinals, yet Manziel did not appear until the outcome of the game was decided.

Josh: With how much Josh McCown has been beat up the last few games, I think the Browns needed to switch to Johnny Manziel, which they did.

Scott: Manziel will start and will (hopefully?) improve off of his start against Cincinnati a season ago. The bar is pretty low, after all.

Richard: With Manziel’s second start of the season the next question will be whether two QB’s are enough to get through the season. And you just wait and see, the next QB controversy will involve shouts from the fans, “We want Davis!” But I think the real story is whether the offensive line can protect any one of them.

Will: …

What receiving option outside of Gary Barnidge and Travis Benjamin do you expect to make an impact this week?

Craig: Dwayne Bowe? (laughter) Travis Benjamin is the logical choice. We know it won’t be Rob Housler. Taylor Gabriel is a possibility. If the Browns are smart (laughter) it will be Duke Johnson.

Joe: I believe Taylor Gabriel will have an impact this week versus the Bengals. Gabriel was targeted seven times last week, third most on the team. With Brian Hartline and Andrew Hawkins likely out on Thursday, Gabriel should be in line to receive more snaps and playing time. He has the talent to make a big play.

Michael: I appreciate an offense that takes some shots down the field, so I’d love another hookup of Manziel to Benjamin. But Benjamin and Barnidge cannot be the sole providers of the offense. Given how Manziel often ignored the weak-side flat in his last start, I would actually like to see him pump some targets to Duke Johnson and demonstrate he is continuing to learn the quarterback position.

Josh: None. If the Browns want to have any sort of passing game Thursday night, those will be the only two that Manziel can lean on who will potentially have an impact.

Scott: It will have to be Duke Johnson. I have zero faith in any of the healthy wide receivers not named “Benjamin.” It will be interesting to see how Flip can run plays that allow Benjamin to stretch deep, Barndige to work the middle, and Duke underneath. If the Bengals dare throw a zone, the Browns should be able to tear it up. That said, if we were to sit here and discuss what should be done…

Richard: It depends on how the game develops … on who the Bengals ignore and whether the Browns offense can exploit that. I’d like to say E.J. Bibbs, but I’d better not.

Will: …

Are we at the point in the season where the Browns should start attempting plays such as the Annexation of Puerto Rico?¹

Craig: If the Browns don’t have a few tricks up their sleeve in a week like this with Johnny Manziel starting and on a Thursday night after a brutal Sunday, then when will they have any? Thursday night NFL games have become an unfunny joke, but it might just play to the Browns’ favor this time. Probably not, but it’s such a chaotic variable that you never know.

Joe: The Browns should stick with their offensive gameplan and not try to blow it up right now. The Browns offense has played solidly this season with their current scheme. On defense, I would try different things because right now their gameplan is not working. Why not change it up on defense?

Michael: Once again, the Browns are up against an opponent which is superior in most facets of the game. Why not have some misdirection and some tricks up the sleeve? At least push out a conservative trick play early just to make the Bengals think we are going that way with Manziel at quarterback.

Josh: Why not? It’s not like they have anything to lose (besides more games) at this point.

Scott: Statue of Liberty? Fumblerooski? Flying V? Where do I sign?

Richard: Like the direct snaps to Crowell last Sunday? The Cardinals were startled once and allowed a few yards up the middle the first time, but after that those plays just looked silly. Primarily, I’d like to see the Browns stop following the “run on every first down” predictability to which we’ve become accustomed. Modern NFL defenses are all about different matchups for each down. Surprise us, for a change, and maybe you’ll surprise the Bengals.

Will: …

Browns defense versus Bengals offense

Is Andy Dalton “a” elite quarterback?

Craig: No. Andy Dalton is not an elite quarterback and this is exactly what I was talking about in terms of Thursdays introducing chaos. Andy Dalton is like a solid number three starter in a pitching rotation. He can be counted on to play well when things are good, but you might avoid having to use him more than you need to in the playoffs and you certainly wouldn’t want to use him on just a couple days’ rest. Andy Dalton is being used this week on a couple days’ rest. (This might all be wishful thinking because I don’t want this game to be embarrassing and/or boring.)

Joe: Andy Dalton is not an elite quarterback. He is a good quarterback, but he is a player who cannot change the game by himself. He has to rely on the players around him to be successful. As we have seen in the playoffs, the pressure and situation can cause him to struggle. He seems to not have the clutch gene that elite quarterbacks have.

Michael: I won’t go quite so far, yet. He has to prove himself in the playoffs against the elite defenses first. However, he has learned to destroy poor defenses and he has handled himself just fine against decent defenses as well. Sadly, Dalton has not just been a “close your eyes and throw it up to A.J. Green” quarterback this season.

Josh: He may be leading an undefeated team, but he has to succeed in the playoffs to be considered elite.

Scott: No freaking way. Matt Ryan isn’t “a” elite quarterback and I’d take him ahead of Dalton. Same for Jay Cutler. I’d even entertain a discussion where I wouldn’t want him in Cleveland given his contract—and Cleveland is a disaster. Solid fantasy football quarterback; less-than-stellar pro quarterback. He is better than Colin Kaepernick, so there’s that.

Richard: See my article on The Franchise Quarterback and the quote about Tom Brady representing the chicken or the egg question, which Ray Farmer was kind enough to use back in April. No, I don’t think Andy Dalton is an elite QB. Neither was Frank Ryan.

Will: …

With Joe Haden and Donte Whitner apparently missing the Thursday game off the short week with injuries, the Browns secondary shredded on Sunday against the Arizona Cardinals will be even more short-handed. Which Dalton weapon will end up with the most receiving yards? How many and which over-matched defensive player will be their primary defender?

Craig: Pierre Desir is probably going to get torched by A.J. Green, if I had to guess.

Joe: A.J. Green will likely have the most receiving yards for Cincinnati. Green will not have to face his Kryptonite, Joe Haden, so he should be in for a big day. Pierre Desir will have to face Green and could have a tough time facing a guy bigger than him. It could be a tough day for the young corner.

Michael: One of the reasons I always felt the Browns could hang with the Bengals was Haden’s ability to shut down A.J. Green. Sigh. Still, I suspect we’ll roll coverage to Green and, as mentioned, Dalton will be smart about it now. I can see Marvin Jones breaking 100 yards and destroying Bademosi if he’s forced to play defense.

Josh: Let’s face it, A.J. Green is going to dominate tonight. Unfortunately, with Haden and Gipson out and everyone having to move up the depth chart, all of the Browns defensive backs will most likely be overmatched.

Scott: A.J. Green may go off, but I’d also temper expectations as both Cincinnati running backs are healthy and have to be champing at the bit to face the Browns defense. The Bengals may not have to throw the ball more than 20 times.

Richard: Multiple choice question? I’m tempted to answer “all of the above”. But last Sunday, Haden was torched, so it’s hard to say. Someone else could actually be an improvement. This could be one of those deals where some young guy comes of age, but not if Dalton isn’t pressured. Give just about any QB five seconds to find a receiver and you make the entire offense into “elite”.

Will: …

Will the Bengals break their season rushing high of 175 yards gained?

Joe: The Bengals will not break their rushing high of 175 yards, but they will be mighty successful versus the Browns porous run defense. I just think the Bengals will try to take advantage of the injured Browns secondary early in the game, hurting their chances at getting 175 yards in the game.

Michael: Well, Jeremy Hill hasn’t made any bold proclamations nor has he done well this season. However, Giovani Benard has been great for them thus far. I think Benard’s style of running hurts the Browns more, and he’ll be the running back doing the damage. I truly hope they don’t break their season high rushing, but if they build an early lead, then I do not see the Browns being able to stop the two-headed attack either.

Josh: No. They could have around that, but I think they’re going to attack Cleveland’s injury riddled defensive backfield more than anything.

Scott: They may not hit 175, but it won’t be far off. If you put the over/under at 150, I’d take the over.

Richard: Based on the Browns performance to date, I think the Bengals will do just about whatever they want to do. That wouldn’t be a big surprise would it? The shocker would be if the Browns keep the Bengals below their season average output.

Will: …

Browns versus Bengals parting thoughts

The Bengals struggled mightily to be even competitive from 1991 through 2002 with only one season to even reach eight wins. Mike Brown finally settled on Marvin Lewis (hired in 2003) and allowed him to remain even as the Bengals were seemingly mired in mediocrity (or worse). Is Mike Pettine the Lewis hire for Jimmy Haslam or do you believe he is more a Mike Shula/Bruce Coslet/Dick LeBeau coaching hire mistake?

Craig: If there’s one thing that I see in Mike Pettine, it’s that he really could be a Marvin Lewis-type head coach. That’s not a flashy thing to say about a guy, but you could do worse than having that level of stability that ultimately pays off. Although it might also be an artificial ceiling. Bengals fans would have to answer that, but I think considering my opinion of Andy Dalton, Marvin Lewis has actually performed pretty well.

Joe: The more losses the Browns get, the less likely Mike Pettine sticks around much longer. Jimmy Haslam is just not a patient man and will likely look to change things around if the losing continues. Mike Brown is a completely different owner than Jimmy Haslam. Mike Pettine will most likely not stick around like Marvin Lewis has in Cincinnati.

Michael: Mike Brown famously refused to fire coaches and pay them to not coach, so he had successive stints of poor coaches kept on for four or more years. With Marvin Lewis though, he demonstrated consistent mediocrity before falling a bit short for a few seasons and then building up. Mike Pettine demonstrated mediocrity in 2014 but is obviously falling short this season. I do still believe Jimmy Haslam needs to give him at least one more year otherwise he is going to be famously known as the owner with no patience who is always firing everyone as he has already with Holmgren, Heckert, Shurmur, Banner, Lombardi, Chudzinski in his short tenure with the Browns.

Josh: I love Mike Pettine, I just think the front office needs to give him more talent to work with, especially a franchise quarterback. He can and will be a great coach if and when that happens.

Scott: I like Mike Pettine the person, but the way the defense has regressed so mightily is very, very troubling and does not bode well for Mike Pettine the head coach. I think he should get the Marvin Lewis treatment, but that’s only justified when the front office gets a slew of playmakers. Green and Dalton and Hill and Bernard were solid, early-round picks; taking a gamble on Vontaze Burfict should be commended. Until this team can get production from early-round picks and adds play-making athletes, no head coach will survive.

Richard: I think it’s too early to tell if Mike Pettine has a long future in store for himself with the Browns. But I’m convinced it’s way too early to be talking about replacing him after only two seasons. Continuity for the sake of continuity is not the holy grail, but only two years for a rebuilding team with a second-year GM also trying to find his way is just absurd. It’s clownish. Therefore, it could happen in Cleveland.

Will: Go Browns. Do better than last time and I’ll count it as a moral victory.

1. That play is from the landmark 1994 film Little Giants, in case you aren’t a patron of the arts. [↩]