Browns (also) interview Lionel Vital for top personnel spot
January 27, 2016LeBron James fights back at the “coach killer” narrative
January 27, 2016With the Cleveland Cavaliers firing coach David Blatt despite making the NBA Finals in his first season and running roughshod through the Eastern Conference this season, the team and organization showed that some of the whispers of dysfunctional discontent within the organization were true. Across town, the Cleveland Browns just finished wrapping up their third head coaching search of the past three years after finishing with the second-worst mark in the NFL.
Conversely, the Cleveland Indians just had long-time front office members Mark Shapiro and Ross Atkins poached by the Toronto Blue Jays, as the city’s MLB team seemingly remains more respected nationally and within the industry than among most of its own fans.
Stability and Continuity
The Cavs decision to fire Blatt was also a decision to toss stability and continuity out the window on the freeway just to see what happened when it hit pavement. The Cavs might have had legitimate reasons to move away from Blatt, but becoming the best NBA team to ever fire their head coach midseason does not provide the optics of being a stable organization — or of an organization that knows what it is doing whatsoever. The same organization that has had three general managers and four head coaches since 2010 now has a real chance for a fourth GM if Tyronn Lue proves to be a mistake as a replacement head coach. Also, among those recent coaches, Mike Brown had been re-hired just to be fired one season into his Second Act. How good it is of Cavs owner Dan Gilbert to continually pay into the Mike Brown Family Retirement Fund. But now, stability has nearly no chance of taking hold. From reports post-firing, it seems that either Lue was a snake undermining Blatt, LeBron James was passive-aggressively cutting him at the knees with lackadaisical support and effort, or both.
The Browns and stability go together as well as Staphylococcus bacteria and an NFL training room. Since 2010, the Browns have had two owners, five general managers (or whatever you want to call Sashi Brown now), five head coaches, numerous assistants, countless systems, and 11 starting quarterbacks. Adding to the issue of continuity is a second contract from a Browns draft pick being as common as high-quality gas station sushi. Future Hall of Famer Joe Thomas is the exception, while Alex Mack technically signed his second contract with the Jacksonville Jaguars only after a prolonged public negotiation all but forced the Browns to match. More often, useful players such as T.J. Ward and Jabaal Sheard either elect to sign elsewhere or are shoved out the door by a new regime in order to be replaced with guys like Donte Whitner and rookie Nate Orchard. But hey, why not drill a few more holes into a sinking ship of a roster?
The Indians are the blinding light amongst the tar-filled eyes of Cleveland professional sports organizations when it comes to stability. John Hart sowed the seeds of stability in 1991 as General Manager, with a new Player Development Director in Mark Shapiro. The two men would create an organization that thrived on finding the best men to hire and help them grow into larger roles with the team or elsewhere in baseball. Whether it was realizing the advantages of early extensions in the arbitration process, early dips into sabermetrics and analytics, the first huge MLB database in DiamondView, or simply allowing new ideas to flow freely, the Indians developed the infrastructure for success.
In fact, the 1998 front office literally changed the entire culture of how baseball is run. While the Browns and Cavs continue to attempt to mimic other organizations’ successful models, the Indians are the model other teams such as the Pittsburgh Pirates, Los Angeles Dodgers, Boston Red Sox, Toronto Blue Jays, Texas Rangers, and more MLB teams desperately attempt to follow (though with more financial tools at their disposal). As such, the Indians are often promoting from within the organization either to replace people who have been poached or to prevent those individuals from being hired away.
Public Relations
Since The Decision and the corresponding Comic Sans Letter, the Cavs have had public relation issues regardless of if they were winning or losing. During the down years, talk of Kyrie Irving and Anderson Varejao’s inability to stay healthy dominated discussions not centered around Byron Scott and Mike Brown’s inability to mold a young roster. Public cries of playoffs in the first and fourth years post-Decision, only to fall into the bottom three of the league each time, only heightened the scorn. Of course, Danny Ferry being suspended as the Atlanta GM for a racist scouting report that originated from the Cavs staff did not help matters. Nor did the early career struggles of top-four picks Dion Waiters, Tristan Thompson, and Anthony Bennett.
Upon the Return, the 2014-2015 team was considered a chore to follow by even some of the most ardent supporters. Early struggles, the Kevin Love FIT-OUT fiasco, rumors of LeBron’s unhappiness with Blatt, Kyrie’s injuries, Andy’s injuries, Dirty Delly, and the upcoming contract situations of Tristan Thompson, Kevin Love, Iman Shumpert, and J.R. Smith dominated the talking points moreso than the team finally becoming a force. Unlike the 2008-2009 team, there was a severe lack of joy emanating outward. This season had been a welcome reprieve from the overtly negative storylines, with the most salacious rumor being of the unhappiness Mo Williams in reference to his playing time. The Cavs dominated the Eastern Conference landscape — but alas, with one swift move to fire Blatt the negativity has returned, as Kevin Love trade rumors are already resurfacing.
Meanwhile, the position of Cleveland Browns public relations manager could not possibly pay enough to withstand the daily assault one must receive in such a post. From the saga of Johnny Manziel;Â having coaches fired early in the season due to domestic violence;Â having coaches force themselves out with 32-slide presentations; firing coaches after only one season, then hiring another coach only to fire those who hired him a week later (no surprise Pettine would only last two seasons given the circumstances); and so much more, the Browns lead professional sports in making news. In fact, two of WFNY’s Top 10 stories of 2015 were centered around the inability of the Browns to stay out of the news. One of these years, the Browns will find a way to make positive news — perhaps even on-field positive news — so the media and fans can stop focusing on GMs being suspended for texting the sidelines, first-round draft picks barely seeing the field (and looking terrible when they do), and the owner’s company being investigated by the FBI, among others things.
The Indians receive their fair share (and more) of bad publicity. Poor attendance, Chief Wahoo, DOLANZ R CHEEP, and the infamous calls for a right-handed power bat are mainstays used when talking Tribe. But outside of these recycled cliches, what bad PR is there for the Indians this decade? The Indians still sell among the cheapest seats in MLB. The team goes out of its way to optimize the fan experience, whether it be getting Yan Gomes to sign two home runs caught by the same fan or modernizing the ballpark with the Right Field District, Kid’s Clubhouse, and the new field views from the concourse.
The good feelings also extend to the players under Terry Francona. The entire team knew Mike Aviles’ daughter Adriana ahead of her cancer diagnosis due to Daddy/Daughter Sundays in the clubhouse. It was obvious they would rally behind her with head shavings, T-shirts, signs, and a special first-pitch day for her. Even owner Paul Dolan got into the act by allowing Aviles to shave his head. Then there was Carlos Carrasco braving out heart scares and facial line drives to keep pace with Cy Young Award winner Corey Kluber while signing a long-term deal. Plus, the entire core of the team is locked up for the near future. This is a lot of good, and that’s without mentioning Francisco Lindor’s smile, Jason Kipnis’ goofiness and super soakers, Jose Ramirez losing his helmet, Andre Knott interviews, Michael Brantley’s handshakes, and Carlos Santana sneakily out-stealing Mike Trout.
Owners
Dan Gilbert is often lauded for his willingness to spend large sums of money to secure whatever players or draft picks are needed for the team. There should be some measure of respect for an owner willing to do so, even outside the years where LeBron James was a money printing press for the team. However, signing fat checks while allowing a culture of divisiveness to exist throughout his organization just makes Gilbert the Daniel Snyder of the NBA. And, as ESPN’s Brian Windhorst noted, Gilbert is as directly involved with the Cavs as any owner in the NBA outside Mark Cuban. But while Mark Cuban has created partnerships with his GM (Donnie Nelson), coach (Rick Carlisle), and top player (Dirk Nowitzki), Gilbert has not. Instead, Gilbert is the type of owner who would dress the Cavs in Steeler pretend-gold yellow and hand the entire arena towels to wave.
Jimmy Haslam is often depicted as the Jerry Jones of the North Coast. Accordingly, it should be noted that Jones, the owner of the Dallas Cowboys, has often been his own worst enemy during his ownership. The best Cowboys teams have been built when Jones has given measures of control to powerful football minds like Jimmy Johnson and Bill Parcells. However, Jones’ impetuous nature has led him to fire these coaches, along with the legendary Tom Landry, during his stewardship of the franchise. Since buying the team, Haslam has been grinding through front offices and coaches as if he had a quota of firings to meet as some sort of new owner hazing ritual. Perhaps none of these men were the correct ones to build the team, but they also did not have any reasonable chance to build a foundation. There is also the little issue that the person responsible for hiring all of the people who “needed” to be fired is still the person doing the hiring.
Paul Dolan has some faults, as the Indians consistently spend among the least in all of MLB. Sure, I have noted how Dodgers and Angels are truly the cheap teams, as they have payrolls already banked by local TV deals while the Indians are deficit spending on those allotments. However, having a roster nearly capable of winning the World Series and not pushing more chips onto the table is frustrating. Over $100 million per year is not even necessary, but a payroll closer to that number could give the team the proper push it needs for a championship. However, for all his faults in spending, he is certainly the best Cleveland sports owner when it comes to hiring good people and actually allowing them to do their job. He is often around the team and involved (unlike, say, a Randy Lerner was), but he isn’t over-riding scouts on draft day or injecting himself into trade discussions either.
Winning
Talent can supersede most things, especially in the NBA, where a few players can dominate the action. The Cavs have one of the top-five players in the history of the NBA on their roster, so the Cavs will win — and do so at a rate higher than any of the other teams in Cleveland. However, it is telling when the first signs of pressure (such as losing big to Golden State) cause fissures to crack the team open.
The Browns prove that perpetual ineptitude can stem from utter failures throughout the organizational structure. There are eight-year-olds1who have never lived to see the Browns finish 8-8 or better. There are teenagers who have never lived to see the Browns make the playoffs. There are adults in their 20s who have never seen the Browns win a playoff game. The Browns’ failures are perfectly depicted through their records.
The Indians show that championships are not guaranteed by a well-run machine. The team does have an issue of payroll not being on par with their competitors’ due to playing in the third-smallest metropolitan region among MLB teams, leading to a smaller local cable deal. However, it is unfair to judge the front office and organizational talent in this manner. The Indians need to do better, but they were the 10th best team in MLB at manufacturing wins from payroll before the 2015 season. Coming off three straight seasons finishing above .500 makes for consistent competitive baseball, but the team does need to take the next step forward into deeper October runs while the current contention window is open.
Hope for the future
A championship cures all ills. History will smile upon even the most crazily-run organizations if you win enough championships. Just take a look at the stories of rift and abject scorn Jimmy Johnson and Jerry Jones held for each other during the Cowboys’ run in the 1990ss. Such is life with the Cavs these days. Will Lue prove to be the coach this team needed all along?
The move by Jimmy Haslam to an analytical approach headed by Alec Scheiner, Sashi Brown, and Paul DePodesta could prove prudent. Can football be run like a baseball organization? Can the Browns model themselves after the Indians instead of the Patriots, Steelers, or Seahawks, as they have failed to do in past years? Is Haslam now truly willing to allow his underlings the ability to make decisions, or is his supposed culture of consensus merely a ruse to allow him to inject his own thoughts into the final decisions?
The Indians are efficiently run and are now among the most advanced teams in player development. The question now is if the conveyor belt of pitchers throughout the system can be complemented with promising young position players. Along with that, can Terry Francona recapture the magic that he had with the Boston Red Sox in 2004.
Taken together, the Browns are still a mess and the Cavs will win tons of games, but the only proven professional organization in Cleveland is the Indians.
- Ed’s note:Â eight-year-olds, Dude.” [↩]
71 Comments
NO!! But if Bone Thugs ‘N Harmony sang a song about a street in Columbus, then I’ll allow it.
I liked the high quality gas station sushi comparison……
(sort of surprised I’m not getting grief for the Steeler yellow & towel line)
“For the Cleveland Indians to be successful there are two things they have to do; draft well and spend money correctly. They failed miserably in both of those departments for 10 years”
How accurate is this? They built a darn good team from 2004-2008 despite not reaching your goals, and if Sizemore/Hafner don’t get hurt, that run may have been better/longer. They’ve built up another good spine of a roster without spending money “correctly”.
It sure would have been nice if they drafted better in the early 2000s, and spent money better than Hafner/Westbrook/Swisher/Bourn, but unless success is nothing short of being the Cardinals, I’d say that can succeed without being perfect.
“Also, depending on what “market size” stats you use, the Indians range from about 19-26 in MLB”
Of MLB cities, the Indians operate in the second smallest MSA, only Milwaukee is smaller.
“I’m sure if someone threw a fit, they would have refunded the full amount,”
I wouldn’t have taken a fit, my ticket rep made it clear from the get go that I could have the full amount refunded if I wanted that.
Huntington just went to the Pirates a few years ago.
Inside joke from a week or so ago.
I don’t really get the Indians hate… Its just not fair to expect them to be able with even mid tier spending organizations capable of simply buying an additional 10+ wins a season due to the egregious lack of revenue sharing compared to the other major US sports. Additionally they cant get FA discounts since we are in a cold weather city.
I figure that if things had the same parity as the NFL, and Cleveland somehow had Florida or even Arizona weather the Indians would probably be able to generate 15 more wins per year. Whats really depressing is that large market teams are exploiting a loophole to sign the vast majority of International players each year by simply forfeiting the right to bid on players the next year so even quality drafts will be overshadowed by LA and NY spending.
As for the attendance issue that was goosed without an NFL franchise in town, I highly doubt it would reach sellouts for a full season without at least a couple World Series appearances.
Steve, there’s about a dozen ways you can judge a “market size” when referring to a MLB team. Population, metro area, square mileage, TV market, etc. you can look at one stat that says Cleveland is small bc it looks at just the population of the city, which is absurd. According to US census data, Cleveland is the 31st largest metro area in the country, but doesn’t account for Akron, Canton, Youngstown, when you add those markets in, Noetheast Ohio is actually the 16th largest region in the US. For the sake of the argument, most people assume that TV market size determines the “reach” of a team that fans can tune into each night. Cleveland is the 17th largest TV market in the country ahead of 8 other MLB markets. This is why I don’t buy the whole “we’re such a small market, we can’t compete” excuse that ownership pushes on us.
Also, Huntington went to the Pirates in 2007… So I was off by a year when I said no one has moved on in the last decade.
Percentage capacity is a meangingless statistic in this context (there are other contexts where this matters, but not in an argument about whether or not fans showed up without LeBron). Either people showed up, or they didn’t. The size of the Q doesn’t matter.
Considering the Indians have been outside the bottom 3 in attendance just once in the last six years, well, I’m sorry, but this is one area where the Cavaliers hands down “win”. (although I hate using the word “win” here because I’m sick and tired of people pitting the Cleveland sports teams against each other….no offense to Bode).
I’m not pitting the Indians against the Cavs here; I was refuting the claim that the Cavs were top 15 in attendance by any metric during the years LeBron was in Miami, a claim which has no merit.
Offense taken!
(just kidding)
You do have to admit, though, that it’s pretty convenient that I can say something you might take offense to, but as long as I say “no offense” afterward, you’re not allowed to actually take offense.
You’re right.. I didn’t take out 2010-11 season and used that when I averaged the 4 years. Also, The Q I believe is the third largest arena in the NBA, so take % capacity out of the equation. The three year avg when you remove 2010-11 is still 19th in the league.
The purpose of this whole conversation though is to show how that the Cavs are a better run overall franchise than the Indians, who as you know are among the bottom 2 or 3 in attendance the last few years despite relative on field “success.”
I appreciate the article, it was fun digging into it a bit, but there’s so much more to evaluating the relative strengths of a franchise that doesn’t always make the headlines.
Hey, I reserve the right to take offense to anything I desire. I just choose to not exercise that right 🙂
I don’t think you can just say attendance is better, so it is a better run franchise either.
Personally, I think the Indians attendance is still taking it on the nose from the 2008 & 2009 trade deadlines. Trading CC, then Lee & Victor was about the worst PR moves that could have been made by the team (though I love having Carrasco now, just noting PR-wise).
What I am unsure of is why the attendance has dipped each successive year since Tito came on board. Sure, some of it is the LeBron-effect (late June playoff run took away some Indians attendance), but it still doesn’t explain everything.
Just hope the Indians put things together and start well. See what happens from there.
If there was one silver bullet to fix the Indians attendance woes, I’m sure it would be in use right now. What they need to do is look at the Pirates model of developing a “new” fan base. I’ll provide a few examples:
I don’t have the case study in front of me, but about 7-8 years ago they started to have their “major” promotional giveaways on Thursday-Sunday games. For instance T shirt Thursday’s with a new t shirt for every Thursday game. Also a kids giveaway for every Sunday game, whether it be an inflatable bat, backpack, etc. this is in addition to the kids run the bases and such. Also They didn’t put limits on how many of these items they gave out.. Or they were much higher than the Indians standard 10k. Contrast this (Carrasco jersey giveaway – Tuesday May 17) with the Indians and you’ll notice that most bobble head giveaways and jerseys have been week days, in fairness it looks like they’re moving some more of these to weekends.
This strategy is called “peak on peak” in the business which basically says to double down on games where you can draw the biggest possible crowds. Their attendance for week day games grew later in the season as people were having fun going to the games despite the team being terrible. The concept is similar to the idea that no one wants to drink in an empty bar. If you go to PNC park now, the place is packed every night because they built a stronger connection to their fans.
Now, the popular thing in ticketing now is variable pricing, which incentivizes the buyer to early and pay more at the gate. The problem with the Indians is that often times the most affordable ticket you can get at the gate, even for a week day game is north of $25, which inhibits the walk up crowd. BTW, the Cavs and Browns use variable pricing as well, but there’s also much more scarcity of seats just by the nature of the sports and how many games they play in comparison.
The Indians are my favorite team in town and I played baseball and majored in sports business in college, which is why it pains me so much to see how much better they could be run.
we all want to see more people show up to games. I agree about pushing as hard as possible on Thur-Sun games and basically taking whatever you can get M-W (w/ cheaper ticket prices to at least attempt to get butts in seats).
still, you are focusing on one aspect (ticketing) as the sole reason the Indians are not well-run. I’d love to see them draw more and some of the reasons you mention above are quite valid. but, the Indians are well-run in many other aspects (MiLB scouting, player development – which has multiple layers, organizational infrastructure, etc.).
Frankly ticketing is the root cause of most of their financial problems. Less people in the park, less you can charge for in stadium sponsorships, concessions, merchandise, etc. They botched the TV deal with the creation of STO.
Over the last decade their scouting, player development has been above average to good, but hardly great. I like the direction we’re heading, but you won’t find the tribes minor league system rated among many top 10 lists.
There may be a dozen ways, but there aren’t a dozen good ways.
There’s problems with each of those numbers. Obviously Toronto is not included in any of them, but Phoenix, San Diego, and Tampa aren’t marked in a CSA. All three top Cleveland in MSA. The Indians operate in a market behind 23 other teams when measured by the CSA.
The Nielsen DMAs you mention are completely useless. They aren’t based on what the team’s actual market is. Place like St. Louis and Denver are considered similar markets by Nielsen, when in reality, the Cardinals and Rockies tv rights extend well beyond those ranges. The Orioles are marked 26th on that list despite getting the rights to broadcast to the entire DC metro area. The Indians operate in a bottom five tv market. And then we’ve yet to include one of the most important measures – household income, which has Cleveland 27th among MLB teams.
By any measure, the Indians are in a bottom five market. And the problem is only getting worse. Places like San Diego and Tampa are growing quickly. Even Milwaukee, Kansas City, and Cincinnati are growing, which can be said by all but three MLB markets. And even Detroit and Pittsburgh have seen their population approach a flat line since 2010, unlike Cleveland.