We interrupt the doom and gloom of the Cavs loss last night to bring you news on Cleveland’s disgruntled kick-returner Josh Cribbs.
Josh has released a statement via the internet (Jocklife.com and Scout.com are the first places we saw it.) According to the statement…well here, you read it-
“I humbly and respectfully come to Browns’ fans and the Browns letting all know that I have given my all to this team, on and off the field for 4 complete years selflessly without regard to myself and my own family. I have sat by while good players came and went, either due to contracts or injury. I have witnessed a lot of families uprooted from their stable homes and forced to move wherever the money came in from. I realize that this is not a fair sport for the players, it is a business and we are products.
Contracts are one-sided in favor of the team, yet we as players are told to honor our contracts without the team honoring them. We are not doctors and lawyers, we don’t get paid for 25 years of work. If we are lucky, we get 10 years at best to make all the money we can to last the rest of our life. We sacrifice our bodies and our health to make our owners wealthy. I am not asking for nothing that I have not already earned and will continue to earn. This is not personal, but I have to be a man and take care of my family for not just a year or two, but for as long as I am walking this earth.
I have always given the Browns’ team and its fans respect and my loyalty. I have stepped into many different roles for the betterment of my team and have brought honor to Cleveland, in the way that I play on the field, and serve in the community.
I have been blessed with this opportunity to be somebody and ask that I be treated and compensated on the level of my peers, fairly, according to my work completed, and on the promise that my future will brightly upheld in a manner gracious of this team and its fans.
I want nothing more but to wear the Browns’ logo on my chest until my career has come to an end, and I am deeply disappointed that the team I put my hard work, blood, sweat and tears in will just write me off as though I am collateral damage. I maintain that this is not personal to Coach Mangini, Mr. Kokinis, or Mr. Lerner, for this is a situation that I could not keep in any longer.”
There are a couple ways to look at this. First, this is incredibly bad timing Josh. I can think of dozens of families that I know who are having to make do with less these days. Jobs are being lost and hours cut all over the place. Not only does Josh draw a check from the Browns, but there is also the show on STO. I think a lot of folks (including doctors and lawyers) would be thrilled to have your type of income and exposure.
Second, I recall you saying something about being a leader and wanting the same type of environment the Cavs have-
“It’s something I appreciate so much that I’m going not only to enjoy the game and support them but I’m going to grasp the atmosphere, to actually see how they mesh together as a team, how they’re getting through it when bad times during the games occur, how they talk as a team and communicate,” Cribbs said. “Do they get on each other when something bad happens? Do they argue, fuss and fight? There’s something that’s happening to them. They must have what it takes — and it shows.
“I went to grab that atmosphere, to see what it took and to see how I can implement it with our team.”
Good way to start that off. Miss camp. Hold out for more cash. That always draws a team together.
Look, I understand that Josh is probably the least paid pro-bowler. But let’s remember that he is still not a lot more than a special teams guy. He will never be a feature WR or RB. He is the best all-around ST guy in the league, but that doesn’t mean he should break the bank either. I think Josh’s contract should be redone, but I’m not in charge and ultimately he made the decision to play for that money. Josh, I have to say a holdout here looks pretty bad on you.
Author: Rick
Rick is a co-founder and editor of WFNY. His love of Cleveland sports is surpassed only by his faith and love of his family. Follow him on Twitter- @rickwfny.Rick has written 743 articles for Waiting for Next Year.
I completely agree Rick…if Josh is that unhappy “sacrificing his body and health to make the owner happy” surely he can stop playing football and can take to the grind for the next 40 years like the rest of us. Are we really supposed to feel sorry for him?
Part of me agrees with Josh’s statement, because the teams are holding all of the cards when it comes to contracts in the NFL. But I’m with you Rick, asking fans to get out their violins for a guy making $1M+ a year is a tough sell these days. The most troubling thing about these types of statements is the idea he has to earn all his money in the next few years for the rest of his life. Heaven forbid he was forced to use his college education after his careeer is over and get a job amongst us little people.
He has been on the team for 4 Years?
geez I barely noticed
How money much is he due this year?
“I want nothing more but to wear the Browns’ logo on my chest until my career has come to an end…”
Joke’s on you, JC. The Browns don’t *have* one.
Athletes just don’t get it. This guy, while underpaid in the league, is living and working in a blue-collar city. Right now he is making TEN TIMES more than the average Cleveland resident’s salary.
In the worst economic conditions we’ve ever witnessed in our life time, he expect sympathy from the fan base?
The Browns are pleasantly smiling at this move, knowing they now have the upper hand with the brownbackers.
its all relative my freinds, he’s playing for under market value and I understand why hes frustrated. Keep in mind that 99% of the “little people” never put in a QUATER of the work this guy did to get where he is, and thats something that YOU need to remember.
That being said I also realize it was a poor decision of him to air this out in the public and expecting fans (esp cleveland fans) to rally around him. No one will ever feel sorry for him in a city in such disrepair, despite his legitimate beef with the browns.
While I wish Josh didn’t come out and say it this way, he didn’t say anything that wasn’t true. He isn’t making much by NFL standards, and he has been one of the hardest working guys on this team for the past couple of years. I can’t see why the Browns wouldn’t just give him a better contract, maybe not Hester money but enough to end this
“. Right now he is making TEN TIMES more than the average Cleveland resident’s salary.”
And he deserves every penny of what he makes and more, based on the RELATIVE VALUE of him to his peers.
You can argue that the sports figures are overpaid, but don’t hate on a guy who worked his a** off to get where he is now. How many of us can say we worked as hard as he did to be wear he is? Very few.
The “I have to take care of my family” line isn’t true. He’s taking care of his family just fine with the money he’s making right now.
I agree with his right to ask for a raise because he’s underpaid comparatively to other similar players in the NFL. So just say that, Josh. Don’t bring the “I have to take care of my family” stuff into the argument, because it just doesn’t hold any water for me.
Actually 99% of people who work 40 hours a week to support a family on a modest income DO put in a “QUATER” of the work that a Pro football player does, it simply a different kind of work. He was blessed with athleticism, and of course he put in all the work involved to get where he is, and I think everyone here appreciates that. But if it is fact just business.. don’t pander to the fans about your blood, sweat, & tears and the cleveland browns logo.
money talks, b.s. walks. He’s a top 3 return man, and top 3 gunner… making less than most kickers…. pay the man something….
“How many of us can say we worked as hard as he did to be wear he is? Very few.”
How can you even quantify that? I don’t get six months off every year to spend in the gym getting bigger. I’ve worked 50-hour weeks on average for my company for 10 years, and haven’t come CLOSE to making in my lifetime what Josh makes in one year.
That’s the thing. Josh Cribbs is not like the rest of you.
Josh Cribbs is an incredibly skilled Pro-Bowl NFL player and the captain of his team. Do you understand how elite that is?
Let’s take a gander at Josh Cribbs’ salary for the upcoming year. $620,000. The league minimum for a fifth year player is $595,000. Please, someone here convince me that Josh Cribbs is worth only $25,000 more than the league minimum.
Look at it from Josh’s perspective. He’s five years into his career. His team plays him at kick returner, special teams defense, wildcat QB, wide receiver and wants to expand his role to safety and nickelback. Keep in mind, this is in a profession turns 30-somethings walker-bound. How long can his body last the abuse he’s going to take?
Meanwhile, Devin Hester, who returns kicks and plays limited wide receiver, will be making $5.5 million next year.
Josh would be stupid for not wanting to get paid. And unlike most of the bums on the Browns roster, he deserves it.
The fact that this site and these commenters are so quickly taking the Browns company line is disheartening.
Times ARE tough. So it would be in the Cleveland Browns’ best financial interests to avoid screwing over and ostracizing their best player.
Matt, I don’t think many people here would disagree that he’s underpaid. But, there’s a time, a place, and a way to broach every subject in life, and Josh is 0-for-3 on this one, IMHO.
Yeah, it’s not fair that teams hold all the leverage, but then don’t sign the stupid contract if in two years you think you’re going to be underpaid.
Times ARE tough. So it would be in the Cleveland Browns’ best financial interests to avoid screwing over and ostracizing their best player.
I thought they bridged the gap with Shaun Rogers.
/likes being a jerk sometimes
ive got a word for Josh Cribbs – Moratorium
TD is like Homer Simpson in the episode where he challenges one guy to a duel, and after the guy backs down he walks around town slapping people in the face with his glove over and over.
@ Matt –
Yes, I get how elite that is – there are 5 other captains on THIS team, times 32 teams = 192 captains. So he’s in the top 200 athletes that play football (maybe). He gets paid way too much for what he does to begin with, so I have no qualms shooting down the complaints for more money. How many people can skip work and DEMAND more money, and not show up until they do? Athletes, and that’s it. How many people are elite at what they do? Lots. How many contribute more to society than a guy that is athletic? A BOATLOAD.
He’s underpaid compared to the market value. Boo f’in hoo. He still makes more than most of us will sniff in our lives. There are a ton of people who make more important, positive contributions to society than he does, while making a fraction of his salary – and they’ll never release a statement to the media about needing to make more money to support their families.
If the Browns didn’t want to screw over and ostracize their best player, they shouldn’t suck so bad. The fact that you think him getting more money is so important to the team is disheartening.
Who gave Cribbs the right to use the same crappy P.R. firm as the Browns? (And couldn’t they ghost-write that, or at least vet it for statements guaranteed to come back and haunt him?)
@ DP – Glove slap, baby glove – slap!
If Josh is using the Cavs as an example on how to build a “team attitude” maybe he should look at what the Varejao/Pavlovic holdouts did to the 2007-2008 Cavs.
Creative and Matt are spot-on, as far as Cribbs’ relative value. He should get paid more. Hester money? Don’t think so, simply because even Devin Hester doesn’t deserve Hester money. But a raise is absolutely in order.
In response to DP and others speaking about how Cribbs makes far more money than you have (despite working at the same place for ten years), you’re proving Cribbs’ point for him: NFL players rarely make it ten years. They HAVE to make more money when they’re actually in the league to even equal what you or I might make from 35 years of steady/non-mind bloodying concussion office work (and the 401k that accompanies it). Not to mention, as much as filling out that TPS report sucks, you’re not undergoing nearly the physical or mental pressure that these guys are. As a result, you’re actually living relatively pain free through retirement…another luxury that injury riddled ex-NFL stars do not have. For God’s sake, NFL players don’t even LIVE as long as we do.
Reading posts on the Browns feels exactly like slowing down to rubberneck a traffic accident and watching the paramedics hoist the gurney into the ambulance. Shouldn’t look, but hard not to sneak a peak at the endless stupid drama.
“He’s underpaid compared to the market value. Boo f’in hoo. He still makes more than most of us will sniff in our lives.”
im sorry, you’re just not getting how the world works. Maybe thats why you’re so angry ?
This isnt a discussion of whats right and wrong with the world, its about why he isn’t getting paid what people of equal or less value to the team are getting paid in his profession.
“There are a ton of people who make more important, positive contributions to society than he does, while making a fraction of his salary – and they’ll never release a statement to the media about needing to make more money to support their families.”
And if THEY wanted to (or had the ability to) THEY could go into a profession that pays them more. But they don’t.
DP,
The “time”: Would you rather he bring his contract demands up mid-season?
The “place”: Um, I’m not sure where would be better. The moon?
The “way to broach”: I don’t claim to be Ms. Post, but I think Josh’s etiquette is okay (he’s missing VOLUNTARY mini-camps while still going to team meetings, you know. Let’s not call him out on being a terrible teammate yet, WFNY).
However, I don’t think it’s right for an owner to promise to revisit a contract with a player after the season and then renege. I also don’t think it’s smart for the team to release an official statement basically calling said player a liar.
DP,
We don’t pay people based on their “contributions to society.” Maybe that’s how it works in DP Fantasy Land, but not in this world.
You don’t seem to dispute my main argument, that Josh Cribbs has significantly outperformed the contract he signed shortly after his first season and is now vastly underpaid in comparison to his peers.
Cribs says he can’t work for 25 years. But making $640k/yr he only needs to work 4 years to make as much as a lawyer who makes $100k for 25 years. If you consider that they’re working for 25 years, I’m pretty sure they work harder than Cribs will for 4 years, it’s just spread over time.
The major difference here; lawyers don’t complain about not being able to take care of their families.
Denny, #26 goes for you too.
Man I want one of these “non exhausting, pressure free” office jobs these people are talking about. I went to the same College as Josh, and while I would hear stories of him partying it up with the hos smoking weed all the time (my buddies GF was a campus cop, so I KNOW that statement’s true) I was busting my A** working 14 to 16 hours a day SEVEN days a week in the architecture studio. Now I’m responcible for countless lives that are placed in the safety design of my buildings with 2 crazy bosses doubling me up on projects and breathing down my neck for 60 hours a week. I have no sympathy for Josh, plenty of people work as hard or harder at their jobs, and in my lifetime I probably still won’t ever make as much as he would off his 6 year contract.
Swig, Denny, et. al.,
Can we stop comparing apples to orangutans and have a real conversation about Josh Cribbs’ value in the National Football League?
He isn’t getting paid what people of equal or less value to the team are getting paid in his profession because he signed a contract that pays him what was agreed upon at the time of signing. Not really sure how holding out and posturing for more money is going to improve his standing with his teammates, and isn’t that what his stated goal is as a leader?
I’m pretty sure the people I was alluding to (but didn’t specifically refer to, apologies) that contribute plenty to society like doctors, lawyers, and law-makers have gone into professions that pay just about as well as one can expect. Not really sure what profession they should go into that would pay them more, unless you suggest they start running into absurdly large people while wearing pads.
But I guess I don’t know how the world works. People who entertain us are worth much more than those who do things to positively impact our quality of living. Got it now.
Matt – that’s fine, let’s talk about football. He’s a special teamer. He touches the ball maybe 8 times a game. He SIGNED A CONTRACT. So, where in all of this does he deserve to get more money?
Denny,
What are you talking about? I’m talking about the NFL. I don’t remember bringing up doctors and lawyers or other professions.
Isn’t this a sports site?
You clearly don’t know how the world works. We don’t PAY people based on their contributions to society. I don’t know what “worth” you’re referring to, but if it’s monetary, no. Doctors and lawyers generally don’t get paid as much in a year as professional athletes. Welcome to 21st century America.
Not really sure how holding out and posturing for more money is going to improve his standing with his teammates, and isn’t that what his stated goal is as a leader?
Clueless. Every player in the nfl does this. You act like he’s setting nw precedent by holding out. When someone like TO (whos made more than his fair share of cheddar) does this, peers may get angry. But when a guy like cribbs asks for more (and possibly PROMISED more by mgmt), they will more than likely be on his side.
Denny,
Josh Cribbs is one of the best special teams players in the NFL.
Additionally, his team wants him at receiver, wildcat QB, safety, nickelback, jersey designer, and beer vendor.
Denny,
Oh, and he’s probably the best tackler on the Browns.
Denny,
When start linking touches with value, then you’re already conceding that a contract is a negotiable document and performance should factor into the equation.
Anybody else out there?
Just coming back from doing some work at my job (oooh, irony!)
In response to DP and others speaking about how Cribbs makes far more money than you have (despite working at the same place for ten years), you’re proving Cribbs’ point for him: NFL players rarely make it ten years. They HAVE to make more money when they’re actually in the league to even equal what you or I might make from 35 years of steady/non-mind bloodying concussion office work (and the 401k that accompanies it).
Wait, what? If anything you’re proving MY point. “They HAVE to make more money when they’re actually in the league to even equal what you or I might make from 35 years…” WHY??? What prevents Josh Cribbs–who went to college for four years just like I did–from getting a job once he’s done playing football? Is it too far beneath him? Or, is your point that, just because the career life-expectency of an NFL football player is one third of someone who works in an office, that NFL player deserves to make 20 times what I make in a year to play an effing game??
He shouldn’t get any more money for being the best tackler on the Browns. That’s like being the best high jumper with no legs.
My point is this – there are real, actual things that matter in the world. This is not one of them. I realize that athletes get paid more. They should not, in my opinion. I’m not obtuse enough to think that’s not reality. That being said, I don’t care. I have zero sympathy for a guy that wants to try and get more money for playing a game for a living. He signed a contract and should be held to it. If you don’t like the terms of the contract, don’t sign it. You guys can continue to argue about this, I’m done. If you want to think that you won the argument, go ahead. Apparently not talking sports made things absurd and silly. That was half the point of the article, the way I read it.
Cribby went from one my favorite Browns players to one of my least favorites. Get over yourself Cribbs.
DP,
The “time”: Would you rather he bring his contract demands up mid-season?
My point is that the timing of it sucks with respect to the verbiage he’s using. People who don’t have a job right now would gladly suit up and run and try to tackle people for $620,000 if you asked them to.
The “place”: Um, I’m not sure where would be better. The moon?
Well, I was speaking figuratively. What I mean is that this should not be brought up IN THE PRESS.
The “way to broach”: I don’t claim to be Ms. Post, but I think Josh’s etiquette is okay (he’s missing VOLUNTARY mini-camps while still going to team meetings, you know. Let’s not call him out on being a terrible teammate yet, WFNY).
Umm, tugging on the emotions of people who are struggling to make ends meet and SURVIVE in this economic landscape about how you’re not making more than a million dollars a year is what I was getting at. Not talking about his grammar or etiquette, though I’d actually argue that it’s bad etiquette to whine about only making a million dollars. If the argument is based on the context of what other NFL players are making, then talk about it with people in the NFL. Don’t go in the press with it.
DP,
We don’t pay people based on their “contributions to society.” Maybe that’s how it works in DP Fantasy Land, but not in this world.
I never said anything about that. Please refer your snippy crap to Denny in comment #18. I imagine Denny Fantasy Land is actually pretty awesome.
You don’t seem to dispute my main argument, that Josh Cribbs has significantly outperformed the contract he signed shortly after his first season and is now vastly underpaid in comparison to his peers.
Nope. As evidenced by the time I said, “Matt, I don’t think many people here would disagree that he’s underpaid. But, there’s a time, a place, and a way to broach every subject in life, and Josh is 0-for-3 on this one, IMHO.”
Whatever happened to honoring a contract? Honestly the “holding out” trend is getting old. The NFL needs to either start fining players that violate their contract a ridiculous amount of money so holding out becomes financially imposible, or just do away with contracts all together. Make everyone a restricted free agent every year. What a pain that would be… but its the only way to ensure the players don’t get paid too little, or in a lot of cases too much. I bet we would see the best football games ever if every player was playing for a better contract.
Tron, I agree. I know the argument is, “Well, the club can terminate it any time they want to!!” Well, then sign a 1-year deal every year. But, be prepared to take a pay cut when you have a bad season.
That’s on of my pet peeves with guys who hold out. If they have a crappy year, they’re not lining up to give money back.
You are right Matt. Therefore, I recommend that Josh quits the “unfair” NFL entirely and start using that Kent State degree to make a living. If he wants more, he can go back to grad school. I’m sure, before he became “huge”, he loved that 6 year contract the Browns gave him.
AMEN, kevin.
He signed for the “security” of a 6-year deal when he wasn’t a star, and now that he’s a star, it’s now a burden.
Seriously? Some dude just dissected the use of the phrase “time and place”? Wow. I guess when you know you don’t really have a point, you have to resort to some pretty desperate tactics. Wow.
DP,
“My point is that the timing of it sucks with respect to the verbiage he’s using. People who don’t have a job right now would gladly suit up and run and try to tackle people for $620,000 if you asked them to.”
Yes, and they would get killed. Literally.
“Well, I was speaking figuratively. What I mean is that this should not be brought up IN THE PRESS.”
First, Cribbs most likely did attempt to rectify the situation privately, until the Browns told him to pound salt. Then, the Cleveland Browns released the PRESS STATEMENT basically calling Cribbs a liar.
I really can’t think of a reason why Cribbs shouldn’t have gone to the press. Do you not believe in the power of the free press?
“Umm, tugging on the emotions of people who are struggling to make ends meet and SURVIVE in this economic landscape about how you’re not making more than a million dollars a year is what I was getting at. Not talking about his grammar or etiquette, though I’d actually argue that it’s bad etiquette to whine about only making a million dollars. If the argument is based on the context of what other NFL players are making, then talk about it with people in the NFL. Don’t go in the press with it.”
The “struggling to make ends meet” argument is so tired and simplistic. So he should have to suck it up and get VASTLY underpaid because people are starving out in the world somewhere?
Nonsense.
This situation is commonplace in the NFL. A sign of a good, stable organization is how it handles this. Here are some truths:
- Cribbs voluntarily signed a long-term contract to guarantee him a certain amount of cash after getting little in guaranted money on his rookie free agent contract.
- Only about a year later he was unhappy with it, he fired the agent that negotiated it, and hired a new one to get him more guaranteed money.
- The contract was team-favorable even then, considering how he was developing as an impact player. But he wanted some guaranteed money that an extension provided.
- Given his performance to date, that contract is now even more favorable to the team.
- The Browns will run a ball control offense, where field position is crucial. Even though he is really just a ST guy, his skill set greatly affects field position in both the return and coverage units. The Browns need him badly this year if they want to start being competitive again.
- Cribbs does have negotiating leverage, because he knows the team needs him and because the organization does not need yet another p.r. snafu.
A competent organization effectively avoids this public dog-and-pony show. It doesn’t release statements denying promises were made, it takes the high road if for no other reason than to make the player look greedy in contrast. (And Cribbs is truly a moron for using the “feed my family” mantra). They better reach an agreement to re-do it soon in return for player happy-talk, and then really do it. They have to stop having so much off-season drama.
As if Cribbs didn’t imply the “struggling to make ends meet” argument with his precious “I need to take care of my family” statement. Cribbs is the one who brought this up, not the fans.
Yes, and they would get killed. Literally.
That’s hardly relevent.
Look, for the third time: no one’s arguing that he’s not talented. ALL I’m saying is that his use of phrases like “take care of my family” is a slap in the face to people who are actually WORRIED that they might not be able to take care of their family. Cribbs isn’t going to be hitting up any food pantries playing out his current contract.
First, Cribbs most likely did attempt to rectify the situation privately, until the Browns told him to pound salt. Then, the Cleveland Browns released the PRESS STATEMENT basically calling Cribbs a liar.
I never absolved the Browns of any wrong-doing at all, FYI. I just have no patience for athletes playing the victim in the media about 99% of the time.
I really can’t think of a reason why Cribbs shouldn’t have gone to the press. Do you not believe in the power of the free press?
Really? Not one?
Not “havng some class”?
Not “making the situation ten times worse by potentially alienting some of your fans”?
Not “making the situation worse for the team you’re supposedly trying to have ‘great chemistry’ with”?
Look, I get it that other players probably support him, but do you think they want to spend time at camp answering questions about it?
As for the power of the free press, I stopped believing in it when the press largely became more concerned with sensationalism than with reporting facts. This case certainly has the potential to fall in line.
The “struggling to make ends meet” argument is so tired and simplistic. So he should have to suck it up and get VASTLY underpaid because people are starving out in the world somewhere?
1. Why is it “simplistic”? Cribbs is the one out there whining about taking care of his family in public. Are you saying that there are no sections of the public that find that stance offensive?? Just because you don’t doesn’t make it a “simplistic” argument. Personally, I find a guy not wanting to honor the contract he signed “tiring” as well, but that’s just me.
2. “So he should have to suck it up…?” Yes. Because he SIGNED THE CONTRACT. As I said above, if you feel like by year three of a six year contract you’ll be “vastly underpaid”, then don’t freaking sign it. Sign a three year deal. Shoot, sign a one year deal for what you’re worth that year every season and take all of the drama out of it. So, let’s say they restructure his deal and he goes out and has a crappy year. Does Josh give the money back? By your rationale, should Lerner be allowed to issue a statement saying he needs to take care of his family and recoup some of Josh’s money?
The problem here is that the Randy Lerner promised Josh Cribbs that they would rework his contract after the season, and then reneged on that promise.
Blaming Cribbs, who, at age 25, is 4th among active NFL players in kick and punt return yards (out of 50 players), for wanting more money, is preposterous. Each and every one of you would do the same thing in his situation.
Since nobody else seems to want to figure out Cribbs’ value, I’ll try:
Josh Cribbs was #1 in all-purpose yards in the NFL in 2007. Last year he dropped a bit from that average, but the Browns had 15 fewer kick returns than in 2007. He still cracked the top 15 in the league.
Josh Cribbs is 20th in all-time yards per kick return. Yes, that’s 20th in the history of the NFL. And 3rd among active players.
Chris Carr might be the closest comparison to Cribbs. Both are 25-year old kick returners in their 5th year who have similar career stats (although Cribbs plays more positions for the Browns).
Chris Carr just signed a 2 year, $5 million deal with Baltimore.
To quote the great sage Patrick Ewing during an NBA strike: “People say we make a lot of money. But we have a lot of expenses.”
Harv21,
Thanks for the thoughtful analysis.
Some people here seem to want to cry about their jobs and how NFL players get paid too much rather than looking at things like rational human beings.
Hey,
I’m all for someone earning as much as they can. Where my complaint starts is where he alludes to how tough his life is only make $600k in this market.
He would have been much better served to let silence be his guide — he had the whole Browns nation behind him. By going public with “god help me and my family pay our bills” line of BS he lost, according to these posts, about half his supportive audience in one day.
edited, with apologies. –DP
Wait, what?
Who’s being irrational?
I love my job. I’m not complaining. I have no problem with football players making millions of dollars. I have a problem with them insinuating that making a million dollars a year isn’t enough to “take care of your family” with.
DP you are so money.
/we speaketh alike
as for “sacrificing your body and health”, have you ever had to work a 6/7 day 10 hours + shift? Or worse yet work 2 jobs just to make ends meet as many are doing today? You signed a contract, man up to it!
DP,
Cribbs only “played victim” after the Browns shut down his request and called him a liar in the press.
Seems to me like he was a victim in that situation …
Your reasoning behind Cribbs not going to the press are so ambiguous they’re hilarious. “Having some class”? What is that about? How is fighting to receive fair compensation not having class? How is speaking out over being wronged not having class?
When has Josh Cribbs, captain of the Cleveland Browns, ever not shown class before?
Not having class is telling your second most valuable player (Joe T. is first) that you’re going to address his clearly ridiculous contract, then going back on your word and calling him a liar in the press.
Josh Cribbs deserves more money. He signed a contract for longevity after his first season (remember, he was undrafted), was promised that it would be changed to reflect his standing as one of the premier players in the league, and now is being made to look like an idiot by his organization.
Wow.Chin up Josh. Latrell Sprewell couldn’t feed his family on an athlete’s salary either.
But seriously, the Browns need to stop being cheap. Pay him.
DP,
Don’t ever speak for me again. You can barely speak for yourself in the first place.
Of the 9000 people who play collegiate football, 310 are invited to the NFL scouting combine. That’s 4.3%. And not all of those guys make it to the NFL, let alone start for NFL teams, let alone make the Pro Bowl, let alone lead the league in all-purpose yards.
I assume that Josh Cribbs realizes that he has a brief amount of time in the NFL. The average career length of an NFL player is 3 1/2 seasons. Nothing is guaranteed. He could tear his ACL in practice, never play again, the Browns could cut him, and he’d be out of luck.
I think he’s genuinely concerned about his family. He believes that he’s not being fairly compensated for his value to the Cleveland Browns, and I don’t think that’s too preposterous.
If average, hardworking Clevelanders have the right to be concerned about their wages and their families, why doesn’t Josh Cribbs?
I havent managed to read it all, I got to post 40 and my brain started smoking.
However, why are we acting like a football players money earning potential is over when they leave the NFL? Many players invest their earnings and have very profitable businesses (ie: Jamal Lewis, ATL trucking company), maybe with the help of the business classes that the NFL provides for its players.
Those who dont invest wisely, or arent in the league long enough, end up working normal jobs like the rest of us. Whether he his making the league minimum for veterans or has a 30 million dollar contract he will be able to support his family later on.
Dont get me wrong, I do agree that he is worth more than he is being paid, but he was the one who signed the dotted line. I think his statements and actions so far havent crossed any lines of respectability but I am afraid that things will continue to escalate. If they do he will need to suck it up or just not play. I sure hope he remembers the old addage “You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.”
First, you’ve been operating under the assumption that Cribbs’ claim that ANYONE told him they were going to re-work his deal is iron-clad, which in today’s NFL isn’t a leap I’m willing to make.
Second, there is a difference between fighting for a raise and whining about it in the press. Stop painting Cribbs as Cesar Chavez. It’s not like they’re trying to outsource JC’s job to Vietnam so they can pay a kick returner $.12 a day. Sheesh.
“When has Josh Cribbs, captain of the Cleveland Browns, ever not shown class before?”
First, as someone else pointed out, there are at least five “captains” of the Cleveland Browns. Cribbs isn’t even the only STer with a “C” (Dawson). That has no bearing on the argument what-so-ever, so stop using it to paint him as some kind of saint/martyr.
Now–for the thirteenth time–I agree that he deserves a raise in a vacuum. I just don’t agree with the way he’s going about trying to get it by pouting and skipping minicamp and by complaining publicly about it. Thus, IMHO, he did not show class when he took his contract demands public in this manner. But, since there’s no way I can shake you to make you understand my point, apparently, I don’t know how else to type it other than that. Maybe my reasons were “ambiguous”, but you flat-out said you couldn’t think of even one reason for him not to have gone to the press. And, as ambiguous as you might think they are, those were three reasons off the top of my head that I would choose to keep my business private were I in Cribbs’ position.
Josh Cribbs deserves more money. He signed a contract for longevity after his first season (remember, he was undrafted)…
OK, I’m with you…
was promised that it would be changed to reflect his standing as one of the premier players in the league…
See, this is where it goes off the tracks. I read a lot of articles about the Browns, and don’t remember reading that one. You’re basing your entire argument on the assumption that Cribbs–who hired a new agent (who, coincidentally, won’t get paid ANYTHING for repping Cribbs UNTIL JOSH SIGNS A NEW CONTRACT… see: Winslow, Kellen and Rosenhaus, Drew)–is telling the truth that they promised to rework his deal. That’s a leap I can’t make without hard proof.
and now is being made to look like an idiot by his organization.
Somewhat, perhaps. He’s also not doing himself any favors in that department, either.
DP,
Don’t ever speak for me again. You can barely speak for yourself in the first place.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA.
Seriously, calm down, sport. Look, I even went and deleted the clearly-sarcastic post that apparently insulted you, even as you basically have told me I’m stupid throughout the entire comments section.
Of the 9000 people who play collegiate football, 310 are invited to the NFL scouting combine. That’s 4.3%. And not all of those guys make it to the NFL, let alone start for NFL teams, let alone make the Pro Bowl, let alone lead the league in all-purpose yards.
I assume that Josh Cribbs realizes that he has a brief amount of time in the NFL. The average career length of an NFL player is 3 1/2 seasons. Nothing is guaranteed. He could tear his ACL in practice, never play again, the Browns could cut him, and he’d be out of luck.
I think he’s genuinely concerned about his family. He believes that he’s not being fairly compensated for his value to the Cleveland Browns, and I don’t think that’s too preposterous.
You know what? Some jerk on Wall Street can bankrupt a bank, my company could have to trim jobs, and I could be out on my a$$ just as quickly. And JC would probably at least get an injury settlement if he tore his ACL, whereas I probably wouldn’t.
So, no, I don’t feel sorry for Josh Cribbs. One year of his contract would pay off: my mortgage, my car, my wife’s student loans, my parents’ mortgage, my brother’s mortgage and car payment, and all of our collective utilities for several years.
So, how exactly is he UNABLE TO TAKE CARE OF HIS FAMILY? Where is it written that, just because he makes an NFL salary, he has to “take care of his family” in luxury? And, AGAIN, where is it written that he CAN’T GET ANOTHER FREAKING JOB once his playing career is over?
Seriously, I won’t speak for you if you stop trying to speak for Josh Cribbs, the only rich guy who can’t scrape by.
If average, hardworking Clevelanders have the right to be concerned about their wages and their families, why doesn’t Josh Cribbs?
He does. Honest to God, for the FOURTH time, I agree he’s underpaid in the context of his peers and his performance. He is clearly allowed to be concerned about how much he makes. I just shouldn’t be expected to give a rat’s backside about his cries of poverty, because he’s in the upper echelon of earners in the world.
The fact remains, NFL contracts aren’t guaranteed, and Cribbs would be an idiot to not try to get a raise from the owners who are making bajillions off his success.
It is nice to hear that you agree with me: Cribbs deserves more money. I guess I don’t really get why you’re upset with him, though.
You’re not that naive to believe that Cribbs just went to the press first and didn’t say anything to the team?
How should he have specifically handled the situation?
I’m not naive, no. It’s just that I think you’re oversimplifying it a bit. It’s not like going to the team is a once-and-done kind of thing. Lots of athletes go out and do their business and let their agents and GMs take care of the contract stuff behind closed doors.
THAT’s how he should have done it. He’s still allowed to fight for his raise and protect his family without coming out in public and making a mockery of himself.
Releasing a statement with lines like:
“I have been blessed with this opportunity to be somebody” (as if the rest of us *aren’t* somebody because we don’t play football?)
“This is not personal, but I have to be a man and take care of my family for not just a year or two, but for as long as I am walking this earth.” (as if you stop doing so once you’re done playing, and/or you’re unable to save/invest money you’re making now for the future?)
I find that insulting, as someone who works every day just like Josh does–and will have to for many more years than Josh probably will–to take care of MY family.
Ooh, ooh, I know the answer to that one, Matt.
He should have not showed up at minicamp and said nothing to the press other than a vague “My agent and I are trying hard to resolve important issues with the team and hope we can resolve it soon to everyone’s satisfaction.” And we’d all still love and support him. And he would (and will) still get his money.
Okay, here’s the complete quote: “I have been blessed with this opportunity to be somebody and ask that I be treated and compensated on the level of my peers, fairly, according to my work completed, and on the promise that my future will brightly upheld in a manner gracious of this team and its fans.”
Read it in context. It’s a little unclear what he’s saying, but with the rest of that, I don’t think he’s saying he’s better than anyone.
Josh Cribbs realizes that he’s probably at the peak of his career and he has to maximize what he’s earning now, to make his family’s life as easy as possible for as long as possible. How in the world does his caring about the well-being of his family insult you? Wouldn’t you do everything in your power to do the same for your family?
Ok, so I am in the middle on this one. First, I think Cribbs deserves more because of the body of work that he has put together, along with Mangini now wanting to explore him at Safety and or nickelback. He does more for the team then any other individual player, and yet gets paid much less. Also, I believe Lerner did tell him he’d get paid and with different management he’s trying to back out of it. If Cribbs lets this get even more out of control, and forces a trade, then I can change my opinion, but the kid is trying to get ‘paid’ to NFL standards. I think there is a different way that he could have gone about it thus far, but really, I am not faulting him. If im in his spot, I would be pushing to get more too. If your good at what you do, one of the best at that, and you are as versatile as Cribbs, then go get the value your worth.
By the way, I think it should be a 2-way street. Players should have contracts that will pay them less if they dont get a certain amount of stats, and when they do well, allow them to get money. The way it is now is ridiculous because players think that they deserve their ‘big money’ when they play good, but won’t budge if they do poorly.
Normally, I’m not sympathetic to renegotiation demands. But I want to be sympathetic to Josh because he’s a good guy and he really is underpaid. However, what he’s asking for is ridiculous. I understand that part of this is a negotiating tactic, but his demand is so ludicrous it puts him in a bad light.
So I hope the Browns give him a nice raise and get on with it.
http://xkcd.com/386/
How in the world does his caring about the well-being of his family insult you? Wouldn’t you do everything in your power to do the same for your family?
Sigh.
Sigh. Sigh. Sigh.
“He’s still allowed to fight for his raise and protect his family without coming out in public and making a mockery of himself.”
Or, in bold, if that helps:
He’s still allowed to fight for his raise and protect his family without coming out in public and making a mockery of himself.
Bold itals?
He’s still allowed to fight for his raise and protect his family without coming out in public and making a mockery of himself.
Wait. You’re a kick returner, right?
(73 comments. Maybe the fans do care more about the Browns.)
Turns out teams do ask players to take less money. Google “restructure contract”, read about Ladanian Tomlinson, or just click on this link (http://www.fantasysp.com/player/nfl/Ryan_Tucker/264576) where Ross Tucker was told to take less money for doing the same job this year, despite having a contract. With the Cleveland Browns.
Teams can cut players — but if a player just quits he has to pay back millions of dollars (http://proathletesonly.com/news/locker-room/buccaneers-jake-plummer-near-settlement-regarding-prorated-signing-bonus/). That’s right, Jake Plummer and Barry Sanders had to PAY to retire.
Don’t be so naive to think that the guys in suits, authoring these contracts, aren’t the ones in control. They have no risk to body or even to their pocketbook, the players bear both.
So we’ve established that these player hold-outs which get the “everyman” so upset are really a misrepresentation. So now we’re left with having no sympathy because they happen to make more money than us. I’d just like to point out that instead of siding with Josh Cribbs, making just above league minimum, you’re siding with Randy Lerner. He makes A LOT more than you. And if that doesn’t convince you, think about why you watch the NFL instead of just your local high school. These guys gets paid so much not just because of their elite athleticism, but because in our hearts we need someone to make that much. Someone to hold on high, someone to inspire, someone to aspire to. It’s not Cribbs’ fault the money is in the game, it’s yours.
Most fans really liked Cribbs before, it’s sad if you let this affect your view of him. He did this quietly last year, and is getting publicly flogged due to turnover and ham-handed ownership.
I’m not siding with Lerner. I feel as though I need to rent a billboard to point out that CRIBBS IS UNDERPAID and I think he deserves a raise. But, he’s not handling it properly. These things should not be hashed out in public.
And, despite the system’s tilt toward the owners, as you point out, no one held a gun to JC’s head and forced him to sign for six years.
I think everyone in the thread recognizes that the NFL (and all pro sports) are in a different world when it comes to the “worth” of their employees vis-a-vis what they’re actually doing.
It also seems to me that everyone seems to agree that in the zany context of NFL pay, Cribbs is worth more that he’s currently receiving.
I also believe Cribbs should receive a raise. I’m also not personally offended by him trying to renegotiate the contract he signed, or even him holding out for a new one. The way the NFL does contracts is incredibly one-sided towards to teams that players have very little to resort to in terms of bargaining power. Yes, no one put a gun to Cribbs’ head and made him sign that 6 year deal, which arguably underpaid him when he signed it. But in the NFL, these contracts aren’t worth the paper their printed on, because so little of the money in them is guaranteed and the player can be released at any time. Even though I’m a lawyer and appreciate the value of contracts, we shouldn’t have this debate about Cribbs’ contract like it’s a contract in the “real world.”
Now here’s where I jump off Cribbs’ wagon – just because the NFL is this crazy world where people are paid millions to play a game (even though it’s a game where they put life and limb on the line) and the contracts might as well be written in disappearing ink – it doesn’t mean everyone in the NFL gets to be immune to/ ignore the real problems going on in the outside world. So that’s why Cribss’s tactics make me angry. I don’t care that he’s trying to get paid or even holding out, but I too get angry when he starts talking about supporting himselg and feeding his family on a 600k salary. That type of talk is hollow BS even in good economic times. It’s even more moronic and insensitive sounding when the city of Cleveland is being absolutely devastated by the worst economy since the depression.
Josh says he doesn’t want to make this personal, and it shouldn’t be, because it’s all business in the f’d up business world that is the NFL. The problem is that Josh made it personal by victimizing himself with the “feed my family” talk.
I’m not siding with Randy Lerner and the Browns either. Par for the course, they’ve handled this miserably, and should have never come out publicly with a statement basically calling Cribbs a liar. But the Browns’ idiocy doesn’t make Cribbs insensitive comments and more palatable or defensible to me.
Here is Josh’ quote:
“This is not personal, but I have to be a man and take care of my family for not just a year or two, but for as long as I am walking this earth.”
He likely bought a house for his parents, gets to pay for the family reunion, and if _anyone_ in his family needs help with medical bills he’s the first one they think about.
Being a man and taking care of your family can mean putting food on the table… but it can also mean giving them the best you can. And he’d be a fool, while at his athletic prime, not to get a fair amount while playing in one of the most lucrative fields. I’m willing to wager that most making 20k a year, struggling to feed their families, agree with him — while those a lot more comfortable situations are arguing.
I actually agree that there are classless ways in which this can be done, and the NFL is rife with them. Ocho Cinco comes to mind with his tantrum last year — one that turned out not to even be genuine (when he realized it wasn’t going to work last spring, he returned to camp and said he was just playing the game). Maybe I’m reading the above sentence differently than others, but I actually think the fact that Josh has yet to miss anything mandatory, is meeting with the team, is asking only to open talks, and clearly wrote this letter instead of having a publicist put out a crafted (and grammatically correct) letter shows that he’s a genuine good guy, hurt that he’s been called a liar, and just trying to do his best in an uncomfortable situation.
Well said, Russ. Some Browns fans seem to be allowing their personal biases cloud their appraisal of this situation.
AMC,
“it doesn’t mean everyone in the NFL gets to be immune to/ ignore the real problems going on in the outside world. So that’s why Cribss’s tactics make me angry. I don’t care that he’s trying to get paid or even holding out, but I too get angry when he starts talking about supporting himselg and feeding his family on a 600k salary.”
Who are you to judge this? Josh Cribbs has done tons and tons of charity work for his community (http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/article.php?id=6654, http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/article.php?id=9168, http://blog.cleveland.com/sports/2008/02/cribbs_returns_the_favor.html, cripes, do a simple google search for “Josh Cribbs charity” and look what comes up).
Josh’s comments aren’t insensitive. In fact, they’re the complete opposite: Sensitive, thoughtful, and clearly heartfelt.
I’m really sick of some of the commenters bashing someone who is demonstrably so concerned and committed to Northeast Ohio as “making a mockery of himself” by asking for fair compensation.
I’m really sick of someone who clearly is Cribbs’ agent coming on here and questioning people’s intelligence for having dissenting OPINIONS.
/reshun.
Matt -
I’m not downplaying what Cribbs has done for the community. One act of sensitivity in the past does not mean that a future act cannot be insensitive. I’m not saying Cribbs is a “bad guy.” Quite frankly, I don’t care if he’s a good guy or a bad guy. If he does charity work, and he clearly does, that’s excellent.
But it doesn’t change the fact that he’s playing the BS victim card with the needing to feed his family line. That line may have come from his heart, but I think it shows a remarkable ignorance of the outside world.
Denny,
Are you attacking me because you have no response to the issue we’re discussing.
I’m not Cribbs’ agent. I’m just someone who likes to challenge others’ beliefs. Sorry if I’ve been brash. That’s my style. If you want to dish out insults to me, be prepared to take it back.
Oh, and your tears taste delicious.
AMC,
You talk of Josh Cribbs’ “remarkable ignorance of the outside world.” You are ignorant of Josh Cribbs’ financial situation. Yet you have no problem judging him as “moronic” and “insensitive.”
Oh, and Josh never said anything about “feeding his family.” Get your quotes straight. He said he wants to “take care of his family.” He’s not talking about survival. He’s talking about securing them financially for the rest of their lives.
The horse is dead.
Long live the horse.
I’m really sick of some of the commenters bashing someone who is demonstrably so concerned and committed to Northeast Ohio as “making a mockery of himself” by asking for fair compensation.
I’m really sick of you mischaracterizing my argument.
He’s not making a mockery of himself for asking. He’s making a mockery of himself by going public and talking about taking care of his family.
In truth, I don’t care if he’s trying to hold out for 10 million dollars. Just let your agent handle it behind closed doors and don’t IMPLY that your family is struggling.
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