Tribe and the Trade Deadline – A History of the Jacobs Field Era – 2003-Present
July 22, 2009Yawning in July
July 22, 2009It’s almost the end of July, which means “who can help the big market teams the most?” You have Los Angeles and Philadelphia looking to add in the National League; and surprising very few, the New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox looking to add in the American League.
Given that our Indians are nearing full-blown rebuilding mode, teams continue to sniff out our potential available players while trying to offer as little as possible to obtain their services. While we here at WFNY look to move guys like Jhonny Peralta and Jamey Carroll, the Yankees and Sox are dreaming a bit bigger. Ken Rosenthal chimes in…
Of course, [SP Clay] Buchholz also could be the centerpiece of a trade offer for the Indians’ Victor Martinez, a player who would serve as protection against injury or ineffectiveness by catcher Jason Varitek, designated hitter David Ortiz and third baseman Mike Lowell (Martinez could play first with Kevin Youkilis moving to third).
So, the Sox would like an All-Star catcher to serve as “protection” for two guys that he is easily better than? Even Dave Ortiz, at this point, could be a reach if you were ranking the four players. I know Martinez has been in a slump, but come on now. Nevertheless…
It goes without saying that the Yankees are not as deep in starting pitching as the Red Sox. […]
Meanwhile, the Indians will trade left-hander Cliff Lee only for the right price.
The catch here is two-fold. One, I cannot imagine that Mark Shapiro would trade Lee to a team that he would likely have to face several times per season – which only increases if they re-sign him past 2010 (Same would go for Martinez to Boston, but perhaps not to the same degree). The second part: Do the Yankees have anyone that would constitute the “right price?” The Evil Empire doesn’t exactly pride themselves on their farm talent these days. Is Phil Hughes even considered a “can’t miss” guy any longer? Dellin Bentances could be interesting, but he’s only 21 and wouldn’t likely contribute for a year and his most likely outcome is pegged around a No. 3/4 starter.
Jesus Montero is a catcher – something we have within our system. Brett Gardner could be our answer at the top of the order, but there are hopes that Michael Brantley pans out. Andrew Brackman has a solid heater, but he’s also looking like a middle-of-the-rotation guy.
So, what about if we tone down the trading pieces a bit?
Indians right-hander Carl Pavano?
“We’ve seen that movie,” one Yankees official says. “Our players would go crazy if we did that.”
But wouldn’t it be worth it’s comedic weight in gold? Pavano, he of the expiring deal, is not about to draw anything special when it comes to a prospect. But hey, we did manage to get Carlos Santana (currently rated as our top farmhand) for a then-expiring Casey Blake. Unfortunately, Pavano’s history isn’t exactly that of the workman Blake; you can’t blame another team for just counting down the days until he hits the DL.
Perhaps if the Indians agreed to pay a portion of Pavano’s remaining salary, it would ease the pain?
Word continue to circulate that the Philadelphia Phillies are starting to make a hard move for Lee, feeling that Halladay is will not be had for their bidding price. The conflicting issue here is that the Indians are looking for top pitching prospects or guys that can help contribute sooner than later. There are reports that the Phillies are not willing to move top prospect Kyle Drabek for Halladay, so they wouldn’t likely be doing the same for Lee.
Infielder Michael Taylor (.333, 15 HR, 18 SB for Double-A Reading) and right-hander Carlos Carrasco (currently sporting a 1.72 ERA with 46 Ks in 36 innings at Triple-A Lehigh Valley) are intriguing, but would they be enough – within a package – to pry Lee away from the Tribe?
Only time will tell.
21 Comments
Nice write-up Scott. As I wrote earlier, I would absolutely love to see Taylor in an Indians uniform. Montero’s biggest strength is his age, but besides that I haven’t seen him absolutely tear up the Eastern League like Taylor and even Drabek.
If you’re giving up someone who can help cover 4 different positions, and is an all-star at that, you damn sure better get more than just Buckholtz.
That being said, I’ll be at the end of the line if they trade Martinez.
And Hafner and his contact continue to haunt us…
I’d rather hang out to both guys next year and see if they can contend. The AL Central is a weak enough division that the Tribe could contend in 2010 with a new manager, improvements by some young players, and rebounds by veterans not feeling the weight of “The Grind”.
If they fall out of contention in ’10, they can still get some prospects for them.
If they trade Victor Martinez to anybody (and especially the Red Sox) or Cliff Lee to the Yankees, I’m renouncing my card as a fan of not just the Indians but of Major League Baseball. I will not give money to a league that is built as a talent funnel to the big money franchises any longer.
who decided that The Grind is a good thing? just the connotation alone is painful…
Do NOT trade V-Mart or Grady, anyone else can go. Seriously, anyone.
I don’t want either of them traded but if I had to choose I’d get rid of Lee.
Bacon-you don’t have to choose, Shapetti will move the BOTH.
How many of you trust Shapetti on this SECOND rebuild? Dolan’s, wake up before your hole is so deep you’re lunching with Randy Lerner.
Sox pick up LaRoche…I would expect that ends the V-Mart to Boston talk.
If Pavano does get traded, it won’t be until August. Doubt anyone will put in a waiver claim on him.
You almost have to try and get something for Lee right now. His value will never be higher and I honestly think he has no desire if resigning. If you can get a Buchholz and a couple of minor league arms you better do it.
No way you trade Victor. He seems to like it here and could be the first baseman for the next 4-5 years. On top of that he is the only guy on the roster that is any type of leader.
Victor is my red line. If they don’t re-sign him, “Mr. Indian,” it’s like we are the Kansas City Royals, destined to compete only if all the planets align precisely, like when we have a Cy Young award winner together with a young guy who comes out of nowhere to win 19 games. Seriously, if this happens, it won’t even be fun to watch the newest batch of newbies develop, because they’ll all have to be gone before they enter their prime and are ready to win.
I really never thought I’d be the kind of fan that would threaten to withhold or end my fandom if my team made (or failed to make) a certain move. I’ve always been, literally as long as I can remember, the very definition of a thick-and-thin, diehard Indians fan. I remember the lean years of the late 80s and early 90s, and I loved the Indians. I remember the fat years of the mid to late 90s when it was easy to live and die with this miraculous, badass team. I remember the early to mid 2000s when we were fans of a young, smart, and exciting team.
But now the scales have fallen from my eyes. This is an arrogant, myopic, and misguided front office. I am honestly having a hard time figuring out what I’m feeling about the Indians right now — dismay, disappointment, even a little anger. I feel like I invested so much emotionally in this team for so long, and they f***ing blew it and (like RAC’s Browns) they simply don’t deserve to be rooted for.
All of this is just to say, if trade Vic, I really think I might just be done as a baseball fan altogether. I’ve stopped paying attention to this season, but there was at least a little hope that they could cobble together a decent bullpen and rotation to go get ’em next year. But if Vic is traded? Nope, that will mean this whole system is completely hollow at its core, and I’ll finally just be completely done with baseball.
Hoynes is reporting that we may have traded Victor for Buchholz. I’m pissed.
http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2009/07/victor_martinez_talks_sputteri.html
Matthew: I have felt like you have a lot over the last year. Do yourself a favor and watch a game not involving the Tribe. The game is not broken. The Tribe is. Baseball has had 18 different franchises win a title since 1983. The owner needs to clean house and if he is not willing to do so sell the team.
I would be angry if the Indians dealt Victor. He has come out to say he wants to stay in Cleveland for his career, so why even flirt with the temptation of trading him? You know if it happens its a player then the infamous PTBNL.
I firmly believe that the tribe just need to clean out the front office and coaches. Get people in here who want to win, and who can improve this team on the major league level. It seems like someone will struggle in Cleveland, get hot in C-bus, and in Cleveland its the same crap. Maybe just promote the C-bus staff up to Cleveland, I dont know, but something needs to change. The players they have all are capable of performing, but they don’t under Wedge.
One thing that it seems nobody understands is they HAVE to trade these guys. Whether its not or next year at this time, both of these players will be gone. The way baseball is set up a midmarket team just cannot compete with player signings. And until there is some sort of cap put in baseball economics, it will continue to be this way. Tribe trading good players to get prospects, a few years later repeat cycle. It has nothing to do with a cheap owner and everything to do with baseball economics.
If we were to trade wither of them, I’m not as concerned about what we get back but what we can dump on them. I would be very happy with a Lee/Hafner trade to NY for some mid-level prospects
@#17: No, they don’t have to trade these guys because we are mid-market. Is Detroit large market? If not, how do they maintain that payroll? Cleveland’s problem is that a mid-market baseball team can compete only if its owner has very serious wealth independent of baseball revenue. And that ain’t the Dolans. What we are witnessing here is the ugly, vicious cycle of owners over their head financially in a game reserved for the very wealthy: The payroll drops, the team success drops, the revenue shrinks, so the payroll drops … etc.
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