I’ve written on previous blogs as well as this one, that I believe the crowd reaction in Cleveland to Jim Thome is a travesty to say the least. I will fully admit, I am in the tank for the big man. The Thomenator is my all time favorite Indian, a class act both on and off the field. Many of you still don’t forgive him for making the one fateful statement “I want to finish my career here.”
But you know something? Money talks, even to a down home guy like Thome. The truth is the contract that the Dolan’s offered Thome was severely back-loaded and would have been the noose around the neck of the organization for years. The Phillies, who were moving into a new stadium and were desperate to make a big splash, not only offered Thome a $10 million signing bonus, but they also guaranteed a sixth year, something the Indians would not do. Add in a seventh year team option which was picked up, and Thome cleared over $98 million.
You tell me you wouldn’t have left a team on the decline, clearly in rebuilding mode during your prime years, for more years and more guaranteed money( to the tune of $15 million)? If you say you wouldn’t, you are fooling yourself.
The guy is all class and deserved a shot at a ring. The White Sox gave him that shot when they dealt him at the August 31st waiver trade deadline to the Dodgers. Proving that he is a team player, he took a strictly pinch hitting role with the Dodgers to pursue the elusive World Series title. He even re-joined forces with old pal Manny Ramirez and Manny wondered if the two could one day ride off in the sunset together in Cleveland.
But they had business to take care of first.
Unfortunately, Thome ran into a buzzsaw managed by the man he called a “second father,” Charlie Manuel. The Phillies disposal of the Dodgers last night in five games sent Charlie’s crew to their second consecutive World Series and sent our old friends, Manny, Casey Blake (who of course hit a robust .105 in the series and .165 for the postseason), Ronnie Belliard, and Big Jim home for the winter.
At 39, this may have been Thome’s best shot at a title. The man who had t-shirts made in the late 90’s that said “it don’t mean a thing without the ring,” is now looking for a team. He no longer can play the infield with his back issues and lack of range, so an American League team will be his next likely destination. “Obviously I’m not a National League player,’’ he said after last night’s loss. “But I wanted to take one more shot. That’s why we play, right? Let’s face it, I’m in the twilight of my career and I have one or two years left.’’
It’s too bad the Tribe is saddled with the horrific contract of Travis Hafner, otherwise, he’d be the perfect fit on a one year deal with this young club to be a DH and a clubhouse leader. Thome can still do it at the plate – he hit 23 homers and drove him 77 RBI in 434 at bats. Here’s hoping he finds a spot somewhere next season with a winner.
Meanwhile, we are just one Yankees win away from CC vs Cliff next Wednesday in Game One of the World Series.
Author: TD
TD is a born and bred Clevelander who agrees with ESPN's Scott Van Pelt when he says ""Ranch Dressing makes everything better except for cereal and ice cream."TD has written 253 articles for Waiting for Next Year.
Never liked Thome, so to say the least I hope the Indians don’t think of signing him. Manny however…one could only wish.
“Meanwhile, we are just one Yankees win away from CC vs Cliff next Wednesday in Game One of the World Series.”
This sentence makes me sick to my stomach. Only in my worst nightmares did I ever see this happening. I’m so sick of baseball.
It’s funny that we might as well have Thome’s ridiculous deal on our books than Hafner’s. they’d provide the same amount of output and at least he’d be a fan favorite.
Thome always struck out too much me. But, I think a lot of peoples negative feelings towards him comes from none other than Mike Trivisonno. That guy blasts Thome and Omar for no good reasons. His nonsense gets into thousands of peoples heads and they believe it. Thome is and always has been classy and LOVED this city. Can’t blame him or CC for their contributions to the Cleveland Indians organization and this city.
My failure to close italics tags also make me sick, coincidentally.
Slightly off-topic, but I just read that the Rays hired Derek Shelton to be their hitting coach. They fired their old coach because the team was concerned about their hitting in clutch situations. So they hired Shelton?!!! The Indians have been one of the worst clutch situational teams during his time as hitting coach.
I too am saddened by the fan response to Thome. There isn’t a single person that boos him that wouldn’t have made the EXACT same decision as Thome in the same situation.
I hope Jimmy finds a place to play next year and keeps padding those stats on his way to Cooperstown, where he’ll be wearing a Tribe hat on his plaque.
Thome did the Tribe a favor by not taking our offer.
As for free-agency defections, that’s the way the world works, so it’s time to get over it, folks. Unless LeBron ditches us, of course, in which case we all will have justificatin for going psycho.
Someone please refresh my memory: why did we get rid of Charley Manuel?
Thome has always been my favorite Indian.
Ever since he came up from Akron-Canton with a hotshot prospect named Mark Lewis.
His leaving was also coupled with the realizations…
1) It’s a buisness and no matter what anyone says the final decision comes down to money
2) The Indians were not capable of being WS contenders with any regularity partially because of the MLB free agent system, and partially because of the new ownership
It’s not the decision that should get people angry. Any reasonable person would take the money. It’s the fact that Thome said it wasn’t about the money when everyone in the world knew it was. When you lie to the fans and patronize them by 1) thinking they wouldn’t understand, and 2) thinking they won’t figure it out on their own, you deserve to be booed.
@7 – A $113 million dollar payroll will make any manager look smarter.
I also refuse to blame Thome for leaving. He was in the last year or two of his prime and the team he was playing for had abandoned hope of getting back to the playoffs anytime soon and sold their best players for prospects. I wouldn’t have stayed around either knowing that I had no chance at a ring.
@7 – if memory serves, Charlie demanded a long-term commitment / deal from Shapiro midway through the 2002 season (the last year on his contract). Shapiro couldn’t offer him anything beyond the current season so Charlie asked to be let go. Skinner then finished as interim manager.
Sounds eerily similar to the Wedge situation except the grinder never demanded such a concession from management and still had one more year left on his contract, guaranteed. Wedge (who knew he was to become the sacrificial lamb for the fans) then talked the good talk about Cleveland who will pay him next year to NOT coach a team clearly in rebuilding mode.
I guess I’m just a realist about player contracts. They’re humans, and they act like rational humans. Money talks. The economics of a small- to mid-market team really sucks for the fans, but that’s how they are. Players leave for greener pastures. I can’t think of any reason that a fan could begrudge them that, other than envy and an irrational sense of entitlement. There are some, of course, who say that players like Thome lead teams on with their talk of loyalty, but heck, what are they supposed to say when a reporter asks them if they want to stay in Cleveland?
I will never begrudge anyone the right to make a living as they see fit, assuming that it doesn’t hurt anyone else. The fan reaction to Thome is just awful, and speaks to the level of immaturity and class envy of the some people.
I don’t boo Thome, I think that’s silly. He’s certainly a good guy.
However, mMy memory may be deceiving me but all I seem to remember is Thome smashing solo HR’s and then striking out with runners on base when it mattered.
I probably would boo Thome. Jesus, it’s nothing personal. I’d boo my own mother if she didn’t play for the Indians. It’s just that simple.
My only problem with Thome was his statement as he was leaving for the Phillies was that he took the contract not because of money but because the Phillies were closer to contention then the Indians.
That he didn’t make it back to the playoffs (2008 with CWS) before the Indians did makes me happy.
And I know it’s all BS when players say that and that it is really about the money — but just say that. It insults everyone’s intelligence to keep saying you want to be compete for titles when you are taking the largest contract. If it was really about titles, take the league minimum and go play for the Yankees.
It’s of course not WHAT he did, it was HOW he did it.
At least he didn’t say that he had to feed his family.
I love Jim Thome, I still have posters of him all over my room and I would love for him to be back on this team, if only it werent for Hafner. Hope he finds a new team and hopefully gets another shot to get a ring.
I was at the Phils-Dodgers clinching game last night, what a great atmosphere. Phillies fans are VERY grateful for Lee, as I even saw a guy with a “Thank you Cleveland” Tshirt on, plus various signs. Thome has done little in this series, only DHing when needed. But man, was there a plethora of ex-Indians in this series, wow. very surreal.
I also heard that Thome was getting pressured by the players association to make the move. I don’t think he really wanted to leave (similar to Vic), but he did what he was “supposed” to do to keep the players’ salaries escalating.
Thome is a standout guy, a rarity amongst pro athletes, and I have a ton of respect for him.. I hope he manages to get to 600 HR’s before retiring, but that’s seeming more and more unlikely.
No problem with Thome taking more money.
Big problem with him not negotiating in good faith.
How many times, exactly, during those negotiations did he go back and forth with his “match this offer, and I’m staying” stance, only to renege?
That’s fine if it’s about the money. But the summer full of “it can’t be all greed” quotes? Blatant hypocrisy is not a character trait to cheer.
I agree with the many others that had a problem with Thome’s tactics, not his ultimate move out of Cleveland. Many athletes (a la LeBron) say things like “I love Cleveland, I HOPE it all works out,” expressing they’re pleased with their situation, but not committing to coming back. Everything about what Thome said leading up to the negotiation was that he was coming back as long as the Indians made him a reasonable offer. He took the cash. Omar and Kenny Lofton were always my favorite Indians of that era anyways…
Manny was my favorite Indian of the 90’s, followed by Charles Nagy who somehow seems to always get forgotten now.
that said…I had no problem with Thome (or Manny) leaving…they did so for far better $$$ to teams who were not direct rivals.
Belle was the Indian who I had the most problems with leaving….as he did to our direct rival.
(and yeah, Thome ended up playing for the White Sox as well…but he was traded there, not signed and it was after time in Philly…there is a difference)
It’s not like he chased kids off his lawn with an SUV.
We would all leave our current jobs if someone offered us a 10% salary increase.
Would the Tribe be that much worse if we brought back Thome, Lofton and Vizquel for a final, curtain-call year?
“(and yeah, Thome ended up playing for the White Sox as well…but he was traded there, not signed and it was after time in Philly…there is a difference)”
What about those rumors that the Indians tried to get involved in those trade talks at one point, with Thome vetoing any move back to the Tribe? I’m sure his heart was here, all the same.
“We would all leave our current jobs if someone offered us a 10% salary increase.”
Regardless of whether that’s true or not (I contend it isn’t, there are other factors involved, not the least of which is spouse’s employment, kids’ schooling, housing market, etc.)…. the next time somebody offers you a 10% increase, and your company offers to match it… make sure you go back to the first offer, get them to increase it, then go back to your boss to tell him you’ll stay if he matches that one final offer. Wash, rinse, repeat three or four times and see how it works out for you.
I hate that as Cleveland fans we’re forced to talk about memories of the 90s. Do all other bottom dwelling teams stare dreamy eyed at the past like we do? I wonder.
Here’s all you need to know:
Phillies offer of 6 years for $90M, guaranteed.
Dolan offer of 5 years/$60M-would not budge on either 6th year or meet in the middle ($75M or the 6th year would have closed the deal, Thome is on record).
The garbage that moronic fans have spewed at a great Indian and MLB high character hall of famer should have been directed at the Dolan’s. There is not a single one of you out there that would have accepted Dolan’s offer above-in fact, if you’re smart you’ll know that Dolan’s offer was phony; he knew by not offering a 6th year Thome wouldn’t sign. Dolan had NO intention of signing Thome……GET REAL, isn’t it about time?
And a word of caution for anyone who has warm feelings for Thome: The entire 90’s Indians team was probably roiding. Just because Thome’s production didn’t fall off a cliff like others’ did, doesn’t mean he wasn’t doing it. Remember that Manny guy? He hit for a few more years after his tribe days as well.
Thome hit 52 homeers in 02. The most in the AL this year was 39. Last year it was 37. The year before that it was 54 by none other than admitted roider Alex Rodriguez.
Guys weren’t just magically stronger 5-10 years ago.
“Dolan offer of 5 years/$60M-would not budge on either 6th year or meet in the middle ($75M or the 6th year would have closed the deal, Thome is on record).”
Of course Dolan couldn’t meet the last offer–Thome was going to take it back to Philly and get it matched. He was leaving. It did not matter one iota what the Dolans did, Cleveland was nothing but leverage for Thome to get a better deal out of the Phils. It was a smart move on the part of the Dolans to pull out of that game after the 3rd or 4th time Thome pulled that crap.
“Dolan had NO intention of signing Thome”
Pointing out the difference between the contract that he ultimately signed with the Phils vs the Dolans’ final offer doesn’t prove that at all.
The Dolans met several earlier Phillies offers. At some point, I’m sure it was clear to them–as it would be to anyone with common sense–that Thome didn’t want to re-sign here and that they were being used as leverage, nothing more, and they pulled their chips off the table.
The Dolans have their faults, but refusing to break the bank for Thome wasn’t one of them.
As many stated here already…. I loved Thome back in the day. For me it wasn’t the contract situation. Baseball is his chosen profession and it’s his job. I knew that, so seeing him leave was a bummer but was not the end of the world for me.
Now what turned me off of him was his first game against the Tribe he had already been traded to the White Sox. He hits an Hr and takes the curtain call. I felt that was just disrespectful to his former team he was playing against for the first time. For me it was just that first time he sees his former team and to take the bow was too much. Shoot if it was a game later in the season and it was the fourth time we had played the Sox I wouldn’t have had a problem with it. It was just the first time that was too much.
I still respect him for his talent and I whish he could have won a ring in his career, however I just couldn’t root for him anymore.
My favorite Indians in the day were Carlos Baerga and Manny. I would like to see a reunion. Manny, Thome, Vizquel.
EMBARRASSING that Thome was ever booed in Cleveland, while the likes of Albert Belle was continually cheered until he put on another uniform.
Remember how Roberto Alomar was booed relentlessly in Cleveland as an Oriole after the spitting incident? That all change after after he signed with the Indians.
You either celebrate class when its deserved… or make an ass of yourself when it is not.
First off great peice, this is something that in my mind hasnt gotten enough attention in a long time. Thome was a great player that truly loves the game. He did numerous things for the community and for the team. You never hear him complain and rarely argue with umps. Growing up I always enjoyed watching him play. I remember as a kid writing him letters and actually getting responses. Class act all around and again thanks for the peice
Still don’t understand why fans cheer Thome and boo Manny. In my mind they both did the same thing.
But these are the same fans that call Dolan cheap without looking at any facts whatsoever, so what can you expect.
There’s only one reason I won’t boo Thome at an Indians’ game – I will no longer go to any such games as long as the Dolans and Shapiro are still in charge. As for Thome, he proved himself to be a two-face liar.