It Can’t Get Much Worse; Should the Browns Go After Charlie Weis?
Written By: DP | Category: Cleveland Browns | Comments: 51
As I was speeding (and I do mean speeding) up I-71 yesterday from Columbus to meet up with my friend in Mansfield, the afternoon show on 97.1 was talking about the rumor of Oklahoma coach Bob Stoops heading to South Bend to take over for the apparently-soon-to-be-deposed head coach of the Irish, one Charlie Weis.
While I think Stoops would have to be insane to leave Norman for South Bend, that’s not really the point. If the firing of Weis comes to pass as many believe it will, wouldn’t it make sense for the Browns to take a flyer at hiring the portly offensive coach to be their offensive coordinator?
Observe the following factors:
1) Brian Daboll is over his head.
I can’t look at the Browns defense and say they are light years ahead of the offense in terms of talent, but they ARE light years ahead in terms of results. Last night is a prime example: missing their two starting middle linebackers, they held the Ravens to effectively seven points on offense (with Robert Royal’s and Mike Furrey’s lack of hands accounting for the other nine, IMHO). The defense makes up for lack of talent with scheme and execution. The offense does not. That’s on coaching.
2) Charlie Weis has an NFL offensive coordinator’s pedigree.
He has three Super Bowl rings as an offensive coordinator, and is probably the one coach most responsible for the development of Tom Brady. That counts for something, and should calm some of the Browns fan-dom clamoring for more actual experience on the sidelines.
3) Charlie Weis and Eric Mangini should be somewhat familiar with each other, at least.
I’m not going to go out on a limb and posit that they have some great working relationship. I would imagine that their interactions were limited in New England, since Weis was the OC and Mangini coached the DBs, I believe. But, Mangini has to know what kind of offense Weis wants to run, and they should both be comfortable with one another given their roots in the Belichick coaching world.
4) Weis and Brady Quinn would be reunited, which would probably help both of them.
Put frankly, Quinn is where he is because of Weis. Weis took Quinn and developed him into a player that many felt was worthy of a first round draft pick. The two are more than familiar with each other in terms of abilities, strengths, and schemes. Part of what I think Daboll struggles with is how best to utilize what talent he does have (*cough* running the “Wildcat” with Jamal Lewis and Lawrence Vickers when you have a speedy Jerome Harrison sitting on the bench). Weis knows how to get the most out of Quinn, and as he showed in New England can scheme an NFL offense to mask weaknesses (other than an aging Corey Dillon, name one “good” running back NE ever had in their Super Bowl years). The Browns need that in spades right now.
–
This isn’t an open and shut proposition, of course. For one thing, The logistics of a Weis hiring would probably be tricky, since he probably won’t get fired until at least December, and by then Mangini could be a lame duck. In addition, if Weis were to be fired by Notre Dame, he would still be due quite a large sum of money from the university. Why, then, would he rush into quite possibly the worst offensive coordinator situation in the league, when the future of the coaching staff at large is in question? And finally, there’s still the matter of Mangini refusing to admit that Daboll is in over his head.
But still, there is that small chance that Mangini sticks around next year. And, if he does, he could do a lot worse than to replace Brian Daboll with Charlie Weis.
Now I’m done.
Author: DP
DP is a native north-eastern Ohioan who has been living in Columbus since 1999. DP's main area of concentration here at WFNY is the Columbus Blue Jackets hockey team, and you can catch his weekly 5-Hole columns each Tuesday. During the summers, you can also catch up on all the Columbus Clippers news that's fit to print in his Clip Show columns. In his spare time, he works in publishing, plays the drums, and wastes hundreds of dollars on Browns season tickets.DP has written 305 articles for Waiting for Next Year.
I’d take that in a second! The Browns need an experienced OC in the Cam Cameron, Norv Turner (WHEN he gets fired) mold.
Sure…bring someone else from ND and NE in here. That will get the fans interested.
WHAT?!?!?! NOOOOOOOOO!!!
Absolutely no one from the Patriots, Ravens, Notre Dame, or the University Of Miami coaching tree should even be allowed to interview for any job with the Browns from here to eternity.
Wait, are we all agreed now that Mangini will be back?
Was this entire post supposed to be in all caps?
Weis would rush for the worst O coordinator job in the world because he needs a serious reputation repair, and it can’t get any worse for the Browns. If the Browns score 6 touchdowns in the first 9 weeks next year then that is an improvement. I like the idea of bringing him in and completely eliminating Mangini’s role in the offense (other than strategy decisions kicking/going for it). After watching a few Patriot’s games the last few years, I have noticed that Belichick is much more interested in running the defense while allowing his O coordinators to run the offense. We saw last night that Mangini and Ryan know what they are doing with the defense, but the offense is completely inept. If Mangini does trust Weis (while it is conjecture it could make sense) then maybe he could turn the offense over to him.
I agree Doc. Romeo had 3 rings also.
This thawt haz failz.
You really think Mangini is secure enough to hire Weiss? Mangini surrounds himself with Yes-Men. No way would he let Weis come in here and steal his thunder.
No more poisonous fruit from the Belichick tree. It’s no good.
Man, nine comments and nary a weight/belt-sharing joke? Either you guys are growing up, or are simply baffled by the thought of Weis back in the NFL.
You’re growns up and you’re growns up and you’re growns up!
Hell, I’d take Maurice Carthon over Daboll.
I don’t think Weis will rush to take a job right away. Two reasons: First, he’s going to be financially set for a LONG time (it’s reported that he’ll get up to 13 million if he gets fired) and secondly, his ego is so ginormous (maybe that’s whats in his belly LOLOLOL) that he’ll hold out for a HC job. I don’t see him taking a coordinator job. Not right away, at least.
The axe has to fall today, I mean come on. Shut out on Monday night with nary a positive look on offense? Bare minimum Daboll and anyone else associated with offensive coaching must go.
@12- Is this enough of a production for ya?!?
@13- How are dumpoffs to the fullback any different from dumpoffs to the tight end?
Weiss will never have to work again after ND fires him.
Or we can hire RAC as D.C. sign a bunch of ex-pat- Rodney Harrison, Corey Dillon, Troy Brown, Junior Seau (darn the Pat just resigned him), Drew Bledsoe (he could tutor BQ) could all come out of retirement we could build an ex-jets/ ex-pats team!
Does he get to spy on other teams and gameplan off of it?
No thanks.
I say no simply because the Patriots went 19-0 with one of the best offenses AFTER Charlie Weis left the team. The same way the Patriots defense was still great AFTER Romeo Crennel and Eric Mangini left the team. No more of this crap. Hopefully, Randy Lerner can hit the target for once with a PFO who knows what he’s doing and that guy will pick the right guy.
So everyone in the world isn’t convinced that Belichick is a micromanager yet?
Well, DP, aren’t you a supernova of optimism.
I’m sick of the “Belichick tree” and all these “genius” coordinators who are getting their first head coaching jobs. Screw it.
I say bring back Marty or Bud Carson. Since Bud has passed away (RIP), I’d prefer Marty… but I think either would be an improvement.
on second thought, let’s hire Charlie, bring back Romeo, and see if we can’t get Rex from the Jets…then we’ll have a Cardiac All-Stars coaching staff…
Charlie Weis as offensive coordinator is the ONLY way I can see keeping Mangini next year.
I mentioned this at the bar last night. Some agreed, some thought I was nuts.
No, no, and no. How many Belicheck Tree morons do you want to try out? Absolutely not.
Pepper Johnson is coaching the D-Line for the Pats now. What a coup it would be if we could snag him for the next Browns HC job!
What’s wrong with Daboll? You guys wouldn’t recognize that issue for months, why so now? Where’s the consistency? Why didn’t you redflag that the INSTANT a ROOKIE OC was hired instead of a veteran playcaller?
After two weeks of a bye, instead of simplifying things and creating a quick hitting passing structure they come out with gimicky line shifts, like that would catch the Ravens offguard……cmon.
Forget about Daboll, it’s far too late to late for that now. Are you still going to “give this thing three years” mantra or show the same inconsistency? How come you’re all not bashing those who think Mangini is a douche now?
Next time, OBSERVE.
WE COULD HIRE KIRK FERENTZ AND HIS SON BRIAN, TO RUN THE TEAM. THEN WE WOULD BE UNSTOPPABLE. OBSERVE AND BOOK IT.
Ok, fine, but it has to be this week. He has until the end of the season to put points on the board.
Otherwise Mangini should be out on his butt.
Biases: 1) ND Fan and BQ fan. 2) Really hating Weis right now as a head coach, not as an OC for the Irish.
And yet I really like the idea of Chuckles as the Browns’ OC. Calling offensive plays from a booth and developing QBs are the two things he does exceptionally well.
He’s a good recruiter, too, but that’s irrelevant here.
Please strip away all the bias you may have against ND or even NE and realize that Weis (there’s only 1 S in his name) took a 6th rounder who couldn’t beat out Drew Henson and helped make him into a Hall of Fame QB. He also took a 50 percent completion % BQ and made him not only a Heisman candidate, but also a 1st round pick. There’s a reason he was invited on stage on draft day. Now he’s made his next QB project into a surefire 1st round pick.
Face it, he knows QBs, calling plays, and working with players that can work Michigan-hours in the gym. He’s just not cut out for the developing an entire team of talent.
So, from someone who hates Weis as my head coach, I’d welcome him as my OC.
I’ll take anybody over Daboll (my God, Mo Carthon looks good by comparison!) But at the same time, I’ve about had my fill of former Pats coaches.
Weis may be great, I don’t know–but I do know that the NE offense has continued to roll regardless of who the O.C. is.
… um …
… Weis? …
really? …
/punches self in face
Or I could have read the comments before just repeating what was said by #13 Titus and #20 Robbie…
I would like to nominate Isis for the President of the Cleveland Browns.
@phred … No it’s all good, since we’re talking about Weis so that more gluttony of repeating quotes the better
Admins, PLEASE post this for me….
Ok. If Weis would even consider coming here, I think it couldn’t hurt. He calls the offensive plays here at ND. Last year, he called the Hawaii Bowl from the booth, where an o-coordinator should be, to see the field. He did an exceedingly good job calling plays. Every other game he has been mediocre to awful. Honestly though, Daboll is garbage. I think it would be better to have the QB call plays than him.
I say no because this would ensure Mangini is back next year. Once or if we hire a “football czar” then they need to build this thing from the top on down. Keeping Mangini here would almost ensure that he would try to undermine the people put above him, since he was here first, and “he has input on who they may or may not hire”.
Is Mo Carthon available???
do not want
Tyrone Willingham?
What’s wrong with Daboll? You guys wouldn’t recognize that issue for months, why so now? Where’s the consistency? Why didn’t you redflag that the INSTANT a ROOKIE OC was hired instead of a veteran playcaller?
After two weeks of a bye, instead of simplifying things and creating a quick hitting passing structure they come out with gimicky line shifts, like that would catch the Ravens offguard……cmon.
Forget about Daboll, it’s far too late to late for that now. Are you still going to “give this thing three years” mantra or show the same inconsistency? How come you’re all not bashing those who think Mangini is a douche now?
Next time, OBSERVE.
Since I wrote this post, allow me to reply.
I can only speak for myself. That said, I don’t ever recall being pro-Daboll. In fact:
My only contribution to this discussion/tantrum is that none of us know who Mangini ASKED to be his coordinators. Perhaps he asked Mike Nolan (just for the continuity of the discussion) and Nolan said NO.
There is a fallacy of argument in sports sometimes (especially relative to FA signings and trades, I find) that infers that just because “Option A” happens, it must mean that “Option B” was not considered. This is obviously not the case.
Now, this would speak to Randy’s point that the problem runs higher up, which is not something I completely disagree with. That said, I understand what Rock is saying as well: if you’re upset that one person was hired, it tends to imply that you had someone else in mind, e.g. I was upset that Mangini was hired because I wanted them to at least talk to Shanahan (and, well, HIRE A GM) first.
http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/?p=6684#comment-20305
I myself have ALWAYS called out the playcalling all season thus far. Point me to the post where I said that Daboll was a good hire and that I was willing to give him three years.
Any instance of giving someone time to succeed would have been in reference to Mangini. But that comes with this caveat: again speaking only for myself as one of nine writers for this site, I NEVER ONCE SAID I WAS PRO-MANGINI. OBSERVE my comment from our “Mangini is Hired” post (and read all of them if you can… most of WFNY’s readership that day was DECIDEDLY ANTI-MANGINI):
http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/?p=6367#comment-19278
Not enough anti-Mangini for you? How about this one from Craig’s piece where he reached out to Jets bloggers to get some very informative information about Mangini prior to his hire:
Thanks all, this piece was very well done and informative.
And, it scares the living daylights out of me as a fan. Other than the caveats of “plays younger players when they deserve it” and “appears to be prepared for other teams”, what I read above had six or seven glaringly red flags as to why this would be a bad hire for the Browns.
I just don’t understand it. Fool me once…
http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/?p=6308#comment-19059
All of that having now been reiterated, I can only assume that Isis’s shot across the collective bow of WFNY is that we’re too “patient” with Mangini. Again, speaking only for myself, in reality, I’ve always said I was ANTI the hiring process that brought him here, but that he was here and there was nothing I could do about it so I’d rather give him two years than flush the whole thing even further down the toilet and start over AGAIN next year. I’ve also always made mention that my patience is conditional upon Mangini showing signs of improvement AND being willing to make changes when something isn’t working. He’s certainly not getting great marks on that last part thus far.
But, whatever Isis. Continue to be the [self-congratulating cherry-picking] voice of [revisionist-history] reason.
As to the entire point of this post, Weis wouldn’t be my first choice. That said, he wouldn’t be a bad choice in my opinion. You can’t use the argument that the Pats 2007 offense was great, therefore Weis had nothing to do with it. From whom did McDaniels learn? Under whom was Tom Brady basically MADE as an NFL player? You can’t throw all of that out the window simply because three years after he left a guy that used to work for him had Randy Moss and Wes Welker fall into his lap and continued running the scheme that Weis had built.
Weis lost to Navy and you want to bring him here. What a joke.
OSU almost lost to Navy.
“OSU almost lost to Navy.”
But nobody’s recommending Tressel for OC of the Browns.
Please make Dabol go away Mr Lerner. For all that is sacred about the franchise and the fanbase. Do something quick, there is 7 more games of this trash and I don’t think that we can stand watching anymore.
ND’s defense is a joke but their offense is pretty good. I would be for this since unfortunately I’m not sure Lerner wants to eat the rest of Mangini’s contract while he’s paying RAC and Savage still.
I’m pretty sure one of ND’s WRs or RBs has scored at least ONE touchdown in their first 9 games, which is more than the Browns can say.
This is probably late for this topic, so I’ll likely end up reposting it somewhere. This team is currently on pace to break the record for fewest points scored in a 16-game season (record is 143 by 91 Colts, Browns on pace for 138). This team is also on pace to shatter the fewest TDs scored by an offense in a 16-game season (record is 14, also by 91 Colts, Browns on pace for almost 9). So, no, it really cannot get any worse historically.
I was thinking the same thing myself. If ANYBODY could get this offense on track and get BQ to play, it would be Charlie Wies. I’m not crazy about keeping EM as HC though at SOME point this organization needs to build some kind of stability.
I love this idea. The defense isn’t as bad as the record shows. Every week they seem to play their hearts out and they actually held the ravens to 9 points. Unfortunately the defense gets so tired from being out there 60% of the game that they can’t keep going. I think hiring Weis would be perfect because he could get Quinn to actually work and we wouldn’t have to waste another pick on a qb. There is so much more we need to do as a team before we waste picks on another qb.
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