The Cleveland Football Browns take on the Detroit Lions (1PM, CBS/WTAM1100) today in a matchup of 1-8 teams. The Browns likely will have star utility man Josh Cribbs on the field today and Brady Quinn will get his second start in a row under center. Check out our Browns Will Win If post from Friday to get an idea of how the Browns can pull off a win in such bleak circumstances. The Browns surely aren’t very good, but the Lions may be worse.
Leave your thoughts here as the come progresses, and enjoy – this may be the most entertaining/competitive game we see all year. If nothing else, if when if the offense falters again we may see the end of the Brian Daboll Era. So we’ve got that going for us, which is nice.
Author: DennyMayo
Denny Mayo is a Northern Ohio native and Ohio State alumnus who currently lives in (and therefore blogs from) Washington, DC. Because he lives in the District, he clearly does not understand anything about Cleveland sports. Contact Denny via email: denny(at)waitingfornextyear(dot)com or on TwitterDenny Mayo has written 204 articles for Waiting for Next Year.
I think the teams are both 1 – 8
Today Mangini benches Harrison, Viekune and Robiske…
What a personnel manGENIUS he is.
Harrison rushed for 129 against the Bengals and is then banished because we can not teach him to block, and the draft picks… well, everybody knows. Mangini (who is currently stocking draft picks) can not draft.
What a douche.
The 36th overall pick in the draft is inactive today.
Good call Alan. Fixed.
Not sure If I can watch this game if the play calling keeps up like it has been.
This is shaping up to be a game for the ages.
Not sure if anyone saw the interview with James Brown/Eric Mangini…
The highlight: Dan Marino in the post-interview reaction saying that he is in danger of losing the locker room because he removed Derek Anderson, who “clearly gives that team the best chance to win.” Apparently, Dan Marino is blind.
Get ready for some Brian Doucheball.
MrCleaveland-any draftnik knew the minute Manscum picked Robiskie at #36 it was a horrible pathetic miscalclulated amateur pick. I was bashed incessently for suggesting Ray M. was the no-brainer smashmouth available at that pick. Look what he’s done just to the attititude of Cinci’s D.
Hey…at least Robo is “smart guy and hard worker”.
He’s not in danger of losing the locker room……he LOST it in training camp. That bird has flown, and it has nothing to do with who’s playing QB.
OBSERVE.
All I was doing was relaying something someone on TV said.
OBSERVE me telling you to lighten up.
Great. This game promises to be bad enough, but on top of that we get to listen to Don Criqui and Randy Cross.
Plenty of great seats still available, guys!
Twinkle Toes for 7 on the first carry? The Lions might be worse on defense than we thought.
7 yard run, followed by a 24 pass by Quinn?
DETROIT BE BAD, Y’ALL.
Jamal Lewis is done. Harrison would have 45 yards rushing already on the four plays they’ve handed off so far.
Other than the delay of game penalty, the offense didn’t look horrible in that first drive. Now if they can just build on it…
hahahaha build on it, good one
Aaaaaaand, that sucked.
I’m in Bowling Green so it’s blacked out. I guess I’m not really missing much. Mangini is an idiot though.
Apparently the Lions watched film and decided their game plan to beat the Browns should be: “Just don’t kick it to Cribbs.”
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!
WOW!!! Quinn on a GREAT play action fake throws a 59-yard bomb to MoMass. And IT WAS AN ACTUAL DEEP BALL. MoMass caught it at the 6.
Touchdown, Browns!
When was the last time the Browns scored on two straight drives? The last time they scored 10 points in a quarter? A half? A game?
I’m discombobulated.
How about that! See what can happen when you don’t wait until the last minute of the game to throw the ball downfield …
Anyone know where I can find the game online?
Stafford doing his best DA impression there, throwing it 5 feet above Drop-cutt’s head…
I’m getting ahead of myself, but man would it be nice to see the Browns do to the Lions’ defense what most teams have done to ours (i.e., keep wearing them down all game so as to feast on them in the second half…)
Apparently Quinn throwing the ball out of bounds on monday was just tricking the lions to think he cant do it.. genius.
Props to JLew for picking that screen pass play up for the first down.
not great but the only thing i found so far
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/detroit-lions-vs-cleveland-browns
Good to see Cribbs playing a lot and not showing any ill effects thus far.
never mind just got pulled
WHO THE [BLEEP] ARE THESE GUYS?
40 yarder from Quinn to Stuckey!! Touchdown Browns!
agreed DP… and as I type this Stuckey gets a deep pass… wow, detroit must really not think brady can throw.
So, we could go 10-6 if we played nothing but garbage teams every week?
I am stunned.
um…what???
If we could play the Lions every week I think we could go 10-6.
My dog has no idea what’s going on. He hasn’t heard me happy about a game all year.
Eazy E with the pick!! Back to the 13 yard line!
Man, Detroit sucks!
The Detroit Lions are making the Browns look like the New England Patriots.
WAY TO GO ERIC WRIGHT!!
AND a penalty on Detroit. First and goal at the 6. I am stunned.
jraster, I agree, except my dog is 95% deaf.
We won’t be last in all the national power rankings this week!!!
aaahhh… vindication!
The Browns scored 78 points in the first nine games (8.67 ppg).
They’ve scored 24 points in 12 minutes!
That’s your stat of the day so far!
Quinn looks night-and-day better, though that is because Detroit is GOD AWFUL.
I NEED A ONLINE FEED!! only game of the year I cant watch and we are scoring
hahahahhahahahha… this is hilarious.
And, props to Randy Cross for this nugget/gem:
“Yes, this is the same Cleveland Browns. They didn’t put pods under people’s beds. This isn’t some space-team that we’re seeing.”
Indeed.
Too bad the Browns can’t play Detroit every week-
And while I never celebrate injuries, how much better would it be to play without Calvin Johnson on the field for Detroit?
D’oh.
Great, now we’ll have to deal with Mangini thinking he’s the greatest coach ever. Fabulous.
Where has this Quinn kid been all season??
Oh, sitting on the bench. I forgot.
(Reason enough to fire Mangini.)
In fairness, historycat, the four games Quinn played in previous to this one he didn’t look anything like this either.
we have our answer…this is what happens when a moveable object meets a stoppable force
This is also what happens if Quinn has talent around him (or, more appropriately, the other team is so bad that it makes our players seem “talented”).
DP, the four games he started were against the Ravens twice, Minny and part of the Cincy game. All of those teams have top defenses…even the Bengals. I don’t even think the allmighty DA could have done much better.
This is what happens when a guy has time to survey the field and make plays.
@DP,
I agree, but the excuse was he couldn’t move the offense.
Today I’ve seen TD’s on pump fakes, check-downs, and play action.
They are throwing downfield early.
I would argue that it wasn’t Quinn’s skills. (We can see he has them) but the play calling that was holding the offense back.
(That and the drops.)
Do we have odds yet on Man-boll going conservative with the lead in the second half?
If they do it will be the return of the old browns and we may pull it out in a squeeker.
We can still blow this lead in spectacular fashion. That should spell the end for Mangini.
This outburst is due to the Lions terrible D, but it sort of gives me a little hope simply because it might buy BQ the rest of the year to develop some kind of chemistry with the WRs. Remember that before the season opened, he had no idea if he was going to start or not. Because of mostly that and some bad play calling, it was a lot of checkdowns, quick bubble screen type passes, and a lot of miscommunication. Even Peyton Manning and Tom Brady weren’t on their A games when they missed significant time prior to a season, and that’s in offenses they had been in for almost 10 years.
Also, it’s a lot easier to run play action when you can give your QB more than 2 seconds in the pocket.
He didn’t play against the ‘Nati. He played against Denver.
But, your point is taken.
Hey, great! Thanks Browns defense for letting them right back into the game.
Phew, I was getting worried for a second there.
Now we can be last in all the national power rankings again this week!
@DP Whoops..my bad. It was Denver.
What happened to the defense btw? No pressure on the QB and why in the hell is Mike Adams covering Calvin Johnson? They want to lose this game on purpose?
One question I still have: Where is Jerome Harrison? How bad could he be? Lewis is struggling against a bad defense.
I think playing the Lions really shows where the problems have been on offense.
Lewis is averaging 3.5 yds per.
Quinn has 15 yards per attempt on 8 of 10.
I’d say 75% play calling
25% right side of the line.
Agree?
Ha I was starting to think this would be an easy game. Ya know, most teams that can even create a 24-3 margin in 12 minutes would at least be able to hold it for the first half. But no.
A running back that can make a little something out of nothing would certainly help. Right side of the line, definitely. Playcalling has largely looked better today, as has Quinn by extension.
The screens and little out patterns are killing the Browns right now. It seems like they’re content to give them the 6 yard dump offs, but that allows the Lions to move the ball.
Apparently Shaun Rogers has decided that he’s just going to jump offsides on every play.
@62…
it’s got to be more distributed than that, between play calling, right side of line, drops, lack of WR/QB practice time, RB (either running or blocking), and QB.
And you would think our D would be great against screens and dump offs. Heck, that’s all they’ve been practicing against.
Hey Sean Rogers,
You are a defensive tackle. Recording ten yards on back-to-back plays is only a good thing for offensive players. Please remember this and play football.
From,
Cleveland
i need a link!!!!!!!!!!!! help me fellow brownie fans!
Wow. Thanks, Big Baby. Held them on third and one, and thanks to the offsides the Browns have now given up 21 straight points.
BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!
Seriously, we have to laugh at this. A game like this really is high comedy.
Oh no! Defense exposed when opposition needs to throw. Ugh!
From 24-3 to 24-24. Just…wow.
Also a DT should never jump offsides. Ever. No excuse. They are right over the ball. The clue to “go” is when the ball is snapped.
Barn burner… Shaping up like DA’s first game as a starter against the Nasti.
We should have known better than to think the Browns could put a game away.
If there is a way to lose, we will find it.
This game should be on Comedy Central, not CBS.
here try this link ryan
http://www.justin.tv/directory/sports/football?order=hot&lang=en
Jamal Lewis: 3.2 ypc
Chris Jennings: 4.3 ypc (and 3 catches for 24 out of the backfield)
Just sayin’.
Sorry, that last carry put CJ down to 3.7 ypc. My bad!
Credit that sack to Steinbach
Wow! Playing w/some stones!
Big huevos to go for it on 4th down there, but I like the call. Good throw/pick up by Quinn/Stuckey. And hopefully will keep Detroit from getting the ball back.
FIRST DOWN BROWNS. Games with lots of scoring and much more fun. Please do this more often Mangini.
Jennings, I now hate you.
“Best thrown ball of the day”
AND HERE COME THE DROPS! GEEEEEEEEEZ
What a horrible drop
Ahahahaha Jennings. He looked like he didn’t even care on that blatant drop in the end zone.
cool beans
WOW. Super huevos!! A fake FG / first down! Nice throw Phil!
Ok, was there a part of the play book that didn’t get copied until this week?
Should we be firing another secretary?
Umm, OK. So we fake a field goal, and then kick it on the very next play????
Whaaaaaaa???
Six second is enough time to run a fade and THEN kick it. I don’t get this move after going for it on 4th down TWICE.
You just kicked a field goal on first down, and left 0:02 on the clock.
All Man-genius did during the time out was shake his head. Why not put the Offense back in and try for the quick TD?
Justin.tv link no worky.
Someone help a brother out!
That makes absolutely zero sense.
Agree completely DP. Wow…Mangini really is a retard.
i agree with criqui, i think they were hoping he would blow by for a TD after catching him off-guard.
He’s an idiot. That’s all there is to it.
A. He (Man-boll) could have been trying plays with “huevos” all season.
B. He doesn’t take advantage of the Lions timeout. (Becasue he didn’t call it?)
27-24 at the half.
Pros:
Offense has looked competent.
Quinn looks like a legit NFL QB (though it’s the Lions…)
Run defense has been fairly solid.
Playbook looks to have been opened up a bit.
Cons:
Pass defense is again garbage.
Run offense looks weak.
Observe
QB rating for the half 149.2
Yep, he doesn’t have the skills.
Book it.
I am baffled by what the browns were trying to accomplish at the end of the half their. That was just a complete cluster****.
And Steinbach is the worst player on the OL right now.
In fairness, Isis has been pro-Quinn all season. Just sayin’…
The sleeping giant has been awakened! The best of the worst! Maybe?
DP, you forgot a con.
Our coach is dumber than a box of cats.
@109,
I know I just haven’t used it in a while.
BTW- the play calling isn’t anything to write home about. Lets get some more PA with some deep passes going maybe? seemed to work a few times if I can remember. I fear that they will look at this and say “24 points in a half seems like we have a good OC.”
It was said, if Quinn shows later in the season that he can throw the long ball, and can move the offense, then Mangini looks worse.
Yep, and Yep.
I didn’t mean the playcalling was great. It just looks like they have an actual game plan, and they’ve called a few more deep passes.
Anyone that thinks the Quinn situation wasn’t about “finding out if he could do it while not spending $11 million” is kidding themselves.
go brady!
O, I wasnt goin after you DP, I just wanted to say I dont think Daboll is doing much better even if BQ is.
the play calling keeps falling back into the same rhythms. It’s like someone is behind them with a hot poker.
Everytime they go Dump pass, short run, screen, they should get a poke.
Why do we keep using the wildcat if Cribbs never throws the ball?
I can only follow on Gamecast… why is it telling me that Phil Dawson is 3 for 3? Seriously? Or is this a glitch?
can’t see the game. Why is Dawson throwing the ball?
I should have included that it says he’s 3 for 3 PASSING.
Gotta challenge that spot dude
Johnson did not get that first down
Mangini doesn’t challenge the spot… The Lions score three plays later. Sweet.
George, my gamecast only says 1 for 1, and that’s b/c we faked a FG
gamecast still sucks. it just said dawson passed on first down. which i’m sure is total crap
wasting a lot of good throws from quinn
he passed for a first down..
“Anyone that thinks the Quinn situation wasn’t about “finding out if he could do it while not spending $11 million” is kidding themselves.”"
Yeah, no holes in that logic. Of course they handed him the starting job knowing he’d fail three games in and *then* be benched.
Or maybe they didn’t read his contract until halftime of the BAL game, is that it?
If the escalators were the issue, THEY WOULDN’T HAVE STARTED THE SEASON WITH HIM UNDER CENTER.
No conspiracy. Just a bad coach.
I think if Quinn had done well, he wouldn’t have gotten pulled and they’d have paid him. Once they started out God-awful, I think the money played into it.
Nice safety there by the defense after the stupid pass-INT penalty on EWright.
I swear, it looks like Lewis looks to initiate contact. That first down run he looks like he had room to the edge, and he cut it inside to engage with a tackler.
there’s a brady ball
@ 134, Thought the exact same thing. What gives? Is he trying to get Mangini fired?
I thought the exact same thing DP… it looks like Lewis could just run to the outside and go, but instead went for contact. Also agree with you about the BQ situation.
Cribbs is getting locked down today… maybe try a screen to him?
@135
You mean the one where he was being knocked on his butt while throwing?
ya, shame on him for not completing that pass.
@#136: I wouldn’t be surprised, hehehe.
Jennings is better than Lewis right now. Book it.
Am I the only one that hates the Wildcat handoff to Lewis play? It’s worthless.
How many times has Cribbs thrown out of the Wildcat this year? I know he had that pick against Pittspuke, but the Browns have to open things up out of that formation.
That’s the only time I can remember him throwing it, ManSleezee.
Quinn needed to lead MoMass better there. He was open.
HELL YEAH CRIBBS!
CRIBBS IS A [BLEEP]ING STUD.
/not sarcasm font’d
Um, please do not hit Cribbs in the head after his play.
Thanks.
Gotta get 7 here.
I knew we needed to get cribbs in this game.
Randy Cross just said, “Excellent playcalling by Brian Daboll.”
I think I might have blacked out.
Bad throw by Quinn. That was an easy TD.
YES SIR!
Michael Gaines!?
TD Browns!
Explain to me why we’re going for 2. How does being up 6 make any difference than being up 5?
YES!
Nevermind.
Why go for 2? That only puts you up by 6 instead of 4.
No difference there.
DAMN! SOME IMAGINATION ON OFFENSE. I LIKE IT!
JLew the 2 pt? no way!
two field goals? i don’t know…i’ll take it tho
Gaines has made a couple of nice plays in this game. Robert Royal, your days should be numbered.
Defense HAS to step up here.
WHO PUT THE ACID IN MY COFFEE?!???
Brady is having a HUGE fantasy day…too bad he’s only owned in 4% of leagues, and probably no one played him. hah
Come on Defense… one time…
Hmm, different officials from the Steelers game.
It’s short of the sticks and so it’s NOT a 1st down.
I think he got it on second effort.
@#167… let’s see…
2-pt conversion makes sense to me…if the Lions score a touchdown, it’s now tied, with the possibility of it staying that way with a missed/blocked PAT. Otherwise, the touchdown puts them on top. Or am I missing something?
We’re losing this game by 1. Book it.
@170, plus if we were only up 5 they could go for two and a field goal for us would only tie.
POOL!!! HUGE!!!!!!
YEAHHHHHHHHHHHH
INT!!!!
Can’t give them the ball back
Stay tuned for three runs into the line.
BOOOM! ROASTED DP!!! haha thankfully
Don’t go Tressel on us
“You don’t want to get really conservative here.”
Uh oh.
@177.
You’re like a mind reader.
@#178, I’d love to be wrong.
wow…DP, i wonder if Detroits D coordinator saw those runs coming?
Nice.
Um. Stay in bounds.
But good catch anyway
Nice first down there, but STAY IN BOUNDS!!
and BQ back at his career day!
Don’t eat up clock.
Go deep down field. You know it works and they won’t expect it!!
No one will accuse this offense of running up the clock.
*running up the score.
I’m an idiot.
I’d settle for one more pass to get a first down, but I bet they won’t throw it. Detroit can’t stop the clock anymore, and if you throw incomplete, they get about 40 extra seconds. Browns will hand off for good or ill here.
Again, I’d love to be wrong. I just assume they want to run that extra 40 seconds off the clock if they have to punt.
[expletive]
Shouldn’t you at least show the possibility of run there?!
hmmmmm Bellichik understudy? go for it? ha
Very nice punt/coverage there in the face of the pressure. I kind of wish they’d have run it though to have burned some more clock.
/hindsight’d
Seal the deal D!
Here comes the heart break.
Hodges is having a pretty good day
I’ll give them 6 yards over the middle all day right now.
Oh, wait. It’s the lions. They won’t throw to the sidelines, and he was over the line on that pass.
Was he over the l.o.s. on that last one?
Defense soft like marshmallow.
Did Don Criqui just say there are a lot of good football players out there??
Put five guys in the end zone. I’m not even kidding.
well this is it
o god
Flags.
Yup.
Are you serious? Pass INT?
I can’t believe we’re going to lose this way.
collapse
this is bull
Wait, so they get the injury charged Timeout without a time out, and yet they get to run another play?
sob
Add this to the Cleveland lowlight reel.
ESPN, start your VCR’s.
its because of the pass int
I hope Hank Poteat gets hit by a truck…
I know the “game can’t end on a defensive penalty”, but with Stafford getting hurt the rule says there should ALSO be a 10-second run off. There are no seconds on the clock.
Explain this to me. Why do they get another play?
He can’t come back in!!
ARGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
bye bye eric
Simply mind-boggling.
How is any of that play in the rule book??
matt stafford breaks his freaking clavicle and still gets a td… the browns blow.
Mangini was right to go for two though…make them kick the XP!
crushing defeat.
We beat the spread!
Bye, Eric.
heart break
have to file a dispute
lol i love it bye bye Mangini
Ok…can we FIRE MANGINI NOW?!?!?!?!?
fire mangini on the spot now right please
Fire Mangini this week.
I know it’s all hind-sight, but how nice would it have been to have run on third down and burn the extra 40 seconds?
I’m still fuming about the ruling. I think that there’s no way you can explain it to me that an injury that would ANY OTHER TIME call for a 10-SECOND RUN-OFF of the game clock can be chalked up to “well, they get an ‘untimed down’ so we’ll just let it slide.”
Thanks, Zebras.
Heart break?
The Browns won this game. It will be over-turned on appeal.
Sorry, guys, but that’s not Mangini’s fault.
*the last-play ruling isn’t Mangini’s fault.
The run-off trumps the un-timed down. They announced that they would be charged a timeout. They didn’t have one.
Browns will win this game about 4-5 days from now.
that was such a freaking joke… why pass it on 3rd and 5 when DET has no TOs? run it up the middle get 40 seconds. Then how do we take a stupid Pass INT penalty? are you serious? they are truly retarded.
Don’t worry everyone… Peter King’s gonna work his “contacts” and explain why even though the refs messed up there’s nothing the league can do now that the game’s over. That Peter King. He’s got his finger on the pulse of the NFL.
bobby-don’t frickin’ make ANY more comments about the Browns QB’s. Don’t even reference any thoughts or opinions on that topic, we’ve heard enough.
TD-don’t even repeat your baseless comment about what QB’s will be on the Browns roster next year.
I’m following this game in Europe right now. I was glued to the computer. To miss a game like this blows. That last play with 00:00 seems very very weird. Can’t wait for the NFl to turn it over, although I doubt it will happen.
Browns football. Where magic happens. What a complete joke mess.
I’m assuming the defensive penalty trumps the injury timeout and that’s why they got another play. I’m thinking that is protocol as the injury could happen because of the infraction. Obviously not the case here, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that is how the rule is written.
Whatever though. Such a brutal, crushing, horrible, etc. loss.
The last play wasn’t mangini’s fault, but
A. Giving up 40 seconds in a close game is.
B. Going back to conservative play calling in the 2nd half is.
C. a defense that gave up that drive is.
Oh, and Donovan is saying that the Browns called time out and that’s why the Lions were able to run the last play. So Totally Mangini’s fault.
Stocking stuffer ideas?
“The Cleveland Browns: 101 Ways to Lose”
I think since Stafford was able to come off the field under his own power, the run-off rule doesn’t come into play. He jogged off, Culpepper came on and the Lions would have just run a normal play regardless.
I agree with a, b, and c.
But, the timeout didn’t matter, because THE GAME ALREADY SHOULD HAVE BEEN OVER. The last play isn’t Mangini’s fault.
KC beat Pitt. In overtime.
#1 pick here we come.
And Mangini’s time out gave them that last play.
That’s right, I forgot. I think the Browns actually called a timeout so the Lions could regroup, put Stafford back in rather than an ice cold Culpepper and actually figure out a good play to call. Quality, quality work all around by the crack coaching staff. Maybe they should have the players run some more laps this week.
If the officials hadn’t awared them the last play, the Browns wouldn’t have had to call time out, because the game would have been over.
I agree about the third down incomplete, though. Don’t think i’m trying to say Mangini should stay. Just that the last play isn’t his fault.
So Mangini took a timeout or not?
@#244: the officials announced the injury timout charged to Detroit. Detroit didn’t have any time outs.
How do the browns always manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?!?!
I’m not arguing that the timeout didn’t help the Lions by letting them put Stafford back in.
I’m arguing that it shouldn’t have mattered because the game should have been over.
In order:
Defensive penalty with no time left = one untimed down
Injury timeout charged to the Lions after the penalty is called = 10 second run-off due to no time outs.
So, does the 10 second run off not have to happen because it’s an untimed down?
I don’t know what the rule is, but if the Lions should not have gotten that final play because of the injury, then the fact that Mangini called timeout should not have mattered – the game should have been over. The trainers were out there with Stafford and the ref announced that the Lions were being charged with “an excess timeout” because of the injury. I have no clue what the hell that means, or how that is possible.
Somehow I do think that the penalty trumps the run-off. I have no idea what the rule is. Let’s say that there were 10 seconds left on the clock when Stafford went down with the injury. If there was supposed to be a 10 second run-off, then there would have been no time left. However, isn’t the rule that a game can’t end on a defensive penalty?
It’s not ending on a defensive play if you have to run the clock for 10 seconds.
Mangini says in post-game that the timeout was to make sure we had the right personnel on the field and to get a look at Detroit’s formation.
So…. where are the browns going to move to this time?
Mangini said he’s “not sure how they ruled it” on the last call.
That’s grounds for a firin’ right there. You better believe that if I’m the head coach, the entire officiating crew would have to circle around me and explain exactly what the hell just happened.
When its all said and done though, you don’t call interference on a last ditch hail mary.
I remember a game several years ago that came down to the wire, and again, the refs felt compelled to influence the outcome with an interference call on a hail mary.
The defensive PI with no time left on the clock trumps any potential ten second runoff. There’s no time to run off the clock because the game cannot end on a defensive penalty. Period. Hence the untimed down.
Cleveland called the timeout…basically they granted the timeout to Detroit to regroup, not the officials.
I can’t believe it…
For an injury timeout, one you need to have a timeout left typically and the player has to leave the game…
“If he hits that third down pass, we win the game.”
Just had flashbacks to the Pittsburgh playoff game.
The key is the Stafford should not have been allowed back in. They way I understand the rule is that if the clock was stopped due to a defensive penalty there is no time runoff…but Stafford should never have been allowed into the play.
Some highlights:
Brady Quinn: 20-32, 304 yards, 4TD, 0INT, 133.1 rating.
MoMass: 5 for 115, 1 TD
Stuckey: 5 for 76, 1 TD
That’s about it.
am i crazy or did i see brodney pool get tackled by a lion right in front of the called PI?
….sooooo yea…
jeff p: Cleveland called timeout. He’s allowed back in after that.
No matter what, if they did award that injury timeout…doesn’t Stafford have to sit out the next play?
Speaking of bad plays, let’s not forget the last first down throw to Stuckey where he battled for more yards only to get out of bounds. Cost the Browns 25 seconds of clock-running. Again, as much as I’d love to believe DP’s interpretation (and again, I don’t know the rule), I tend to agree with DJ that the PI is going to trump to clock run-off.
I think they have to run a full play before he can re-enter, a time out doesn’t constitute a play
I don’t even know whether the refs called an official injury timeout for Stafford. I know CLE called timeout…as far as I could tell, that was it. But if the refs didn’t call an official timeout for Stafford, then he’s fine to come back in the game.
there were trainers on the field…there HAD to be an injury time out if there was personnel on the field.
@ DJ – the refs definitely called an injury timeout. They didn’t show the announcement, but during a replay of the PI call, you could hear the ref saying something to the effect of “the Lions will be charged their first excess timeout.” Again, I had no idea such a thing existed.
Did CLE call timeout before the trainers came out?
Ok…I didn’t hear it.
Ok, last time out or not.
This game showed that the offense does have some skill players, and that they have been held back by a coach.
Why? Because they are not “his guys” I can’t think of any other reason that they went from historically low production, to 24 points in the first quarter.
Then we went conservative and lost. Plain and simple.
AMC: it’s in the same part of the rule book as the “you didn’t really get the first down by measurement, but we’ll give it to you anyway” book that the Steelers got against us. That rule book only comes out against the Browns as far as I can tell.
For example, I remember back to the New Orleans game in like 2002 when the Browns got called for “illegal advantage” on a field goal try, because on of the linebackers illegally used the back of another player to boost himself higher to block the kick. I’ve never seen that rule called before or since that game.
Final Two Minutes, Each Half
2. A team cannot buy an excess timeout for a penalty. However, a fourth timeout is allowed without penalty for an injured player, who must be removed immediately. A fifth timeout or more is allowed for an injury and a 5-yard penalty is assessed if the clock was running. Additionally, if the clock was running and the score is tied or the team in possession is losing, the ball cannot be put in play for at least 10 seconds on the fourth or more time out. The half or game can end while those 10 seconds are run off on the clock.
@DJ (272) – no. The PI flag was thrown, the trainers came out, the officials called the “excess timeout,” the ball was spotted for the play with Culpepper as the Lions’ QB, the Browns called timeout, Stafford then came back out and threw the TD.
For whatever it’s worth, I’m hanging a 76-0 beating early in the third quarter against the Ravens in an old version of Madden. It’s the only non-destructive way I could think of to take out my aggression.
@#276 – that’s my interpretation. The clock should have “run” on the untimed down for 10 seconds, thus ending the game.
But, I’m not a ref.
Holmgren comes in and fires “Mangenius”…then begs Cowher to take the job….then cleans house of the entire team minus Josh Cribbs. All of them.
Then Man-gina takes his new role as offensive coordinater at some unknown college somewhere (where he belongs). Either that or he and Tim Couch can go in a car dealership somewhere.
I love that Mangini doesn’t see himself as the problem. Truly unbelievable.
So by the rule, the clock wasn’t running so there doesn’t have to be a 10 sec runoff…but Stafford should still have had to sit out a play. Therefore, the final play in ineligible because of his presence on the field…game over, Browns win…that’s how it should go.
@#274:
Couldn’t disagree more. The reason our offense looked so much better today? Detroit’s defense is 32nd in the league.
Also, they *didn’t* get conservative on that last third and 5 play. If they had, they’d have run the ball and let 40 more seconds run off the clock before punting it back. And they’d have won.
i am the most anti-magini guy out there but i think he was ok today. brady showed some poise when he gets time – although he routinely underthrew receivers. regardelss, i don’t see DA getting back on the field ever again.
The PI penalty stopped the clock…so there’s no 10 second run off…but that doesn’t allow Stafford to come back on to the field before the lions run a play…I think that’s where they went wrong in the explanation…
So you’re telling me there’s a chance… YEAH!
@DP, are you sure he’s allowed back in? I don’t know where it says that, I just know if you get an injury timeout your not allowed in the next play.
@ C (284) – that’s where I think Mangini’s timeout comes in. I think an injured player may reenter a game if a timeout is called before the next play is run.
Once the Browns called their timeout, I believe that meant Stafford could come back in.
Regardless, I feel like we’re all collectively the three bleacher guys in Major League:
“The trajectory of the ball was too high…”
I remember specific instances where an offense called a timeout after a big sack, so the QB has time to shake off the cobwebs and not leave the game. Obviously, if the D calls a timeout, this does the same thing.
HOWEVERZ. There was an injury timeout first (which the refs are allowed to give without any repercussion to Detroit). What I don’t know is if Stafford was allowed back in because WE called a timeout AFTER the injury. And I can’t find it in the rulebook anywhere.
@277: Thanks AMC.
Just read the AP recap of the game: It says the Browns “gave Stafford a chance to get back in the game by calling a timeout…”
I think Stafford was allowed on because Cle called a timeout. Also, the browns should have run right after the 2 minute warning. Daboll is way over his head trying to call plays like you would in Madden.
@282
It’s not so much the points as the production. Quinn can’t throw the deep ball. (well, now we see he can.) It’s because the Lions are so bad that we can see the Skills or Lack of we have.
Look at this like a practice. In this practice we showed ability, so it’s the play calling that has held us back.
And if they weren’t conservative, then why was that last drive,
Lewis up the middle
Lewis up the middle
8 yard pass for first down
Lewis up the middle
Lewis up the middle
Incomplete
Punt.
You yourself said you were predicting 3 runs up the middle. So ya, not horrible, just aweful.
“Holmgren comes in and fires “Mangenius”…then begs Cowher to take the job….then cleans house of the entire team minus Josh Cribbs”
BY END OF BUSINESS DAY!
So back to the start of this argument, it was Mangini that allowed Stafford back in the game… him and the bum Poteat that has yet to do anything this year.
I blame rogers for not blocking the XP. /sarcasm . I’m so pissed, good thing we aren’t a good team…I can’t imagine how much more angry I could get if this mattered.
They went conservative in the 2nd quarter and allowed the lions to score 28 consecutive points how can you not blame mangini for that garbage.
The Browns definitely looked in the second quarter like they thought this game was all wrapped up.
Old School Madden Frustration Update:
Heading into the fourth quarter, the Browns lead the Ravens 98-0. The Browns have 208 rushing yards and have notched 300 through the air. They’ve held the Ravens to 39 yards on the ground and 56 through the air. The Browns’ defense has also grabbed 9 interceptions through three quarters.
/fantasy land’d
About the only good thing to come out of this game (besides firing Mangini, which should happen by tomorrow morning) is that the QB debate should be settled once and for all. It’s Quinn’s job now. (At least until next year.)
why waste your time crying about the call. in the end the NFL will come out say sorry cleveland we made a mistake, but we’re not changing the outcome of the game. simple as that
Well I threw up a little in my mouth watching the the last 0:00 (?) seconds of the game. Hindsight is 20/20 and Mangini’s timeout allowed Stafford back in.
Thing that upsets me the most is how miserable Mangini was at the press conference. Sure he had a tough questionable loss, but buck up and talk about the good for crying out loud. There was plenty of improvement and good things that happened today. Mangini’s a mean miserable SOB that can’t even say anything good about his team. No wonder the players don’t respect him.
Also, note to Brian Dabol: Jamal Lewis up the middle never works. Ever. Stop running the play 2 times in a row you jerk.
Damn. One too late.
The biggest blunder was not at least showing the possibility of a run on that third down play. The Lions knew exactly what the Browns were going to do. Incomplete pass. Clock stops. Punt. You know the rest.
Would I have run off clock by running on third down? Yes. Do I mind that the Browns went for the win in trying to get that first down? No. But, a la Belichoke, Man(lack of)genius doesn’t make the defense play the possibility of a run, and it cost the Browns as much as any of the other bone-headed moves in this disaster of a game.
what’s the record number of post on a single thread in WFNY history? this one has to be close. mainly because everyone’s saying the same thing.
that said, its nice to feel some vindication as a season long Quinn supporter, regardless of which team he performed well against…
@304
Exactly, we’ve all seen the 2X Jamal up the middle play set up countless 3-and-outs all season long. ALL SEASON LONG. Everyone and their mother knows exactly what play Dabol is going to call next and he doesn’t do anything about it when we need it most? You have got to be kidding me. My 13 year old brother makes better play calls in Madden. Dabol is a Da dolt.
And the Browns win their first-ever bowl, the #1 Overall Pick Bowl.
Raiders/Browns HAS to be nationally televised now. Gradkowski vs. the team that cut him? Who doesn’t like that storyline?
As much as I’d love to say Quinn has made it, one game a QB does not make. Especially against the 32nd rank pass Defense. I say his status is still TBD.
Final Score Alert:
Browns 147, Ravens 0
AP – Cleveland
The Browns rushed for 272 yards and threw for 412 more in a 147-0 rout of the Baltimore Ravens. The Browns defense allowed a paltry 126 total yards and nabbed a mind-boggling 12 interceptions, returning 5 of them for scores.
/Madden’d
Jets just scored on special teams. I can’t fathom how, since we took all of their best special teams players this year.
Actually, I’m pretty happy about the game. It’s a Pyrrhic, victory.
1. The Browns showed that they are able to score. I don’t need any stats on the Lions D thank you.
2. Brady Quinn is not a terrible qb. He showed that he can throw downfield. (No, I am not a Quinn-bot; I’ve favored DA this season).
3. They preserve a higher draft position for next year.
4. Hey – Charlie Weis may be available as OC for next year! Spend that paper Randy. I think you are in a corner and need to splash out.
All-in-all, I’m just happy to watch the Brownies in a nail-biter.
GET THEM SCOUTS WORKING OVERTIME!!
@ 305 – we’ve hit 400 before, during the draft I think. 300+ is up there though, for sure.
OK, I am not going to lie: this was the result I have been waiting for all year. As a Steeler fan living in Erie, PA with a lot of Browns fans for friends, I am loving this. But I have not honestly enjoyed a Steeler win over the Browns since the Christmas day massacre years ago, but this does feel like Christmas came early. (And it is keeping me going after the last two disasterous Steelers games)
But seriously, there is hope for the Browns. I honestly believe that, and I hope you guys can turn it around next year. 2003 was horrible for the Steelers and a few years later we lost to the Raiders (which if I remember correctly kept us out of the playoffs). Like Harvey Dent said, “The night is always darkest before the dawn.”
1. Pick a QB and stick with him.
2. Shore up the Defense and O-Line in the draft (which means drafting smart)
3. Holmgren is looking like a great choice for management, and if that means dropping Mangini and looking for a new coach, say “Bye-bye!”
4. If Mangini goes, it might be time to go back to Marty-ball. He got a raw deal in San Diego, and I would love to see him redeem himself.
But after going out to the OSU-PSU game and seeing my alma mater get smacked, this is the medicine that I needed.