While We’re Waiting… Grading the Cavaliers’ Draft
June 24, 2011WFNY Podcast: Talking Irving, Thompson and Trading Harper
June 24, 2011As the dust settles in Independence, the Cleveland Cavaliers appear poised to add two new names to their roster at the beginning of the 2011-12 season – whenever that may be.
With the first- and fourth-overall selections in the 2011 NBA Draft, Chris Grant and his staff opted to call the names of Duke point guard Kyrie Irving and Texas power forward Tristan Thompson, two players who the Cavaliers said were at the top of their draft board. In the early going of what will be a multi-year rebuilding process, Grant stated that his team set out to draft players who he felt were the best available at their respective positions and that the team did just that.
A lot of hype, expectation and speculation went into Thursday night’s festivities as the team was armed with two high selections as well as two second-rounders, the $14.5 million Traded Player Exception acquired in the LeBron James deal last summer and multiple players who had been rumored to be up for grabs. What resulted may have failed to meet the expectations of those hopeful of boundless moving and shaking, but the Cavaliers are better today than they were 24 hours earlier.
A lot of questions will still be at large: Why did the team shy away from Jonas Valanciunas after all this time? What does this mean for the future of JJ Hickson? What will the team do – if anything – with the Exception that is set to expire in six days?
Following a night of coffee-fueled drafting and trading, Grant stated that the team’s goal at this stage is to maintain their flexibility while acquiring assets. Not using the Traded Player Exception for the sake of using it was a passive step in that direction; the trade of Richmond power forward Justin Harper that netted the team two additional draft selections was more active.
Presently, the Cavaliers have a mere two expiring contracts on their roster in Anthony Parker and Alonzo Gee – it was highly improbable that the team would come away with more than two NBA-ready players on draft night. The selection of Macabi Tel-Aviv’s Milan Macvan will not appease the “need it now” crowd, but the MVP of the 2009 Nike Hoops Summit (23 points, 14 rebounds and six assists) is a player who will be stashed overseas with hopes of unleashing his 265-pound “nastiness” on NBA opponents in the near future.
When the team became unwilling to trade back into the first round as their list of allegedly 15 players who they were interested in slowly began to become rife with strikethroughs, Grant opted to move into pick acquisition mode – believe it or not, as unsexy as second-round draft selections are, they’re assets that other GMs will covet more in terms of future deals; they sweeten deals without the inherent requirement to take on additional salary at present day.
Unfortunately for those requiring wheeling and dealing, once Enes Kanter was selected by Utah and Jonas Valanciunas’ buyout had yet to be signed, the trade market at the top of the lottery had dried up. Brandon Knight carried no market interest – he did fall to the eighth pick. Alas, the team took who they felt was the best player on their draft board.
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Jennifer Pottheiser/NBAE via Getty Images
35 Comments
What ticked me off about the trade was that in many cases, the 32nd pick is more valuable than the 30th pick (guaranteed contacts). So we trade away that pick which could have addressed a need for two second round picks of a team that will be a playoff team over that timeframe. If the trade was with a lesser team, it would be fine, but I just dont get it.
Assuming one of the PFs will be dealt (Hickson?), Harper is very good offensively and could supplement Thompson’s lack of such skills, either at the 4 or occasionally the 3. He was worth keeping
… just a thought, Hickson and $14.5-mil TPE for a solid wing guy?
What’s with the HIckson schizophrenia? He may never be a superstar, but at least he’s the one long-term rotation player on the team, and he’s worth more to us than to contenders. Why would we choose to draft ANOTHER PF that we can develop and then trade? This reminds me of the Indians a little.
@Stinkfist – very good thoughts there that basically echo mine from the “Nevermind” post yesterday, except that I didn’t think about the guaranteed contract part of it. I was disappointed to see us give up a guy who could be a solid role player in 2-3 years for two draft picks that are more likely to not end up being useful at all. If the Cavs need to make room for his contract, they can cut Samardo Samuels.
Current working theory:
– Front office decided two things before the draft: 1) JJ is not the future, he is a perennially immature kid who Scott temporarily browbeat into giving some effort. But his trade value will not be higher and they don’t want to risk how he might perform after he gets his next contract. 2) After Irving and Williams, this draft did not have any guys who are less risky than they might get in a trade or in next year’s draft.
– They smoke screened interest in Jonas so that if multiple teams fell in love they would auction him off for multiple picks, future picks or players.
– No one fell enough in love. Or maybe the smoke screen fooled only the media but not the other teams.
– With no offers that would bring a JJ replacement, and having decided that JJ has to go now with his value high, they took his best replacement with Thompson. Even if teams know they will trade JJ, they can get value especially if multiple teams are interested.
– They decided they can get their scoring elsewhere, either through a trade or in next year’s supposedly rich draft.
This was not necessarily a debacle, although that’s our instinct when we decided they were going to grab someone and they didn’t.
It’s only a debacle if Thompson simply cannot contribute at this level.
But possible huge cause for concern: when they picked Thompson, Roda and Reghi were saying that Dan Gilbert “fell in love” with him and insinuated that owner’s interview with player influenced the pick. If true, double uh-oh, nay, triple. Ferry left over the issue of final say on basketball matters and the owner is making picks? Uh-oh again.
“… just a thought, Hickson and $14.5-mil TPE for a solid wing guy”
Once again: You cannot combine the TPE with a player in a trade.
to keep things in perspective. imagine if we didnt have the #1 pick.
@216in – With our pick at two and the Clips’ at 8, we could have had DWill and Kemba, and become the new Milawaukee Bucks.
@Scott – not directly. however teams have in the past worked 2 trades that effectively combined a player and the TPE.
here’s an example of how that might have worked in something I discussed with a few friends (couldn’t happen now since Bucks already made a trade, but principle still stands)
AV+#4+Gibson
for
Bogut+Maggette
because of the TPE rules, you’d have to do 2 trades. first, Bogut for TPE+#4. then, AV+Gibson for Maggette. as much as i’d love to screw Milwaukee ‘boozer-style’ and ‘forget’ to call in the 2nd trade, obviously we couldn’t do that (we’d never be able to trade with any GMs again)
And that pic is terrible. it looks like some kind of freak twins at a bar mitzvah.
And now to stop complaining – it’s great to have Kyrie, and they didn’t make the mistake of trying to get quality vets and shoot for a seven seed this year.
@Harv – i doubt it was a Gilbert pick. Tristan has been getting stat-geek orgy love and the Cavs are one of the heaviest stat-geek-friendly teams (along with Portland, Houston, and SA).
i’m guessing the stat-geeks won on the Tristan pick.
“not directly. however teams have in the past worked 2 trades that effectively combined a player and the TPE.”
It’s also not what he said.
@Scott – understood. just as you were adding clarification to the original post, i was adding further clarification to how it could happen.
I was pumped when the Cavs drafted Irving.
I was excited when they drafted Thompson because that obviously meant a trade was looming.
I was shellshocked when Toronto picked Valanciunas – the trade-down was up in smoke!
I was begrudgingly accepting of the Thompson pick after I realized he was coming to Cleveland.
I was downright angry when Chris Grant treated the 2nd round like a piece of dog poop stuck to his shoe.
@mgbode: hope you’re right. Certainly don’t swallow everything the radio idjuts say, but no one much talks about the reasons Ferry left. There’s a thin line between a wealthy, passionate owner and the cocky self-made man who thinks it’s his team, his player evaluation is important too. We do not know who he is yet, or how strong a GM Grant is yet. Probably just paranoid, but owners in the war room who are doing anything but sipping scotch with guests or calling to congratulate picks make me real nervous.
@Harv – Grant turned Mo Williams’ healed heart into Baron Davis and Kyrie Irving. That’s brownie points in my book.
@stin – and it probably won’t stop there. wait until Davis gets traded, then we can really see what Mo Williams got us. wait – what we really should be saying is that we traded Damon Jones for Kyrie and Baron Davis. haha.
@9 – Agreed. I don’t follow the NBA. I just came to make fun of that picture. Very high school yearbook. I expect to see other shots of them with their varsity jackets.
I’m trying to have faith in the FO but this draft still just puzzles me. Especially since next year’s “loaded draft” is mainly loaded with F/PF at the top! I thought we would try to address other needs this year then grab a big F/PF tweener next year!?! (A. Davis, H. Barnes, J. McAdoo, P. Jones, Q. Miller, or J. Sullinger?)
@stin: agree, great move, that and what’s coming next for Davis. Permit me my public airing of sports angst. Get like this post-drafts, I’ll be ok tomorrow.
My biggest concern in all of this is where are the Cavs’ points going to come from next year? Irving should be solid but I really don’t want a system where we are depending on the (ROOKIE!)PG to score 30 points a night. So, Andy (when healthy), JJ, Gibson, Davis are going to have to have to play out of their minds. The fact that Thompson is a 50% free throw shooter is a killer. I have no problem playing small but being small and not having an EFFICIENT scorer terrifies me.
Scott states “but the Cavaliers are better today than they were 24 hours earlier”
The Cavs had the first and fourth overall picks in the entire draft and that is the best that can be said? OUCH!!
@architrance – One correction: Harrison Barnes is in no way a ‘tweener. He’s a pure small forward, and we can still grab him next year if we have a high enough pick.
Also, can I again call out the ridiculousness of people saying that this draft was/is “weak”? Look at past drafts and tell me if the top 10 players drafted are generally can’t-miss prospects. Heck, even the #1 pick… can you say that Michael Olowakandi, Kwame Brown, Kenyon Martin, Yao Ming, and Andrea Bargnani are “can’t miss prospects”? How often is there really a can’t-miss future star in the draft? I’m really excited for history to rain on everyone’s parade. If this draft only produces 3 players who end up being all-stars at some point in their careers, it will have done just as well as the 2000 and 2004 drafts. Please please please at least look at the 2000 NBA draft and tell me that this draft won’t be better. I dare you.
@pat – Tweener (and secret workout) are just my words of the day.
for those of you who think we will trade JJ, i ask how you expect us to play two bigs, neither of which can score? AV and Thompson are paid for their D. They can’t make a shot, they are just good enough to dunk. Jameson isn’t a long-term option. JJ has been working on his range and getting better offensively. Thompson just doesn’t fit.
@baj21. these are two quality humans.
@joe – Thompson and JJ can play together. They actually fit pretty well together (it would be ideal if JJ was 3 inches taller, but alas).
Thompson handles the tougher defensive assignment and cleaning up the boards. JJ handles the pick-n-rolls, popping out for jumpers and the down-low scoring (Thompson can do backside picks and roll to the basket for alley-oops. that’s all i’m comfortable with him doing on offense outside of fastbreaks)
now, how do you put Thompson and AV on the floor together? that, i do not know.
(Yes, I am trying to talk myself into this pick more. But, there are some solid points, right? right?)
@ClownBaby–Cavs were not going to get it all done in one draft. This sounds like a Browns take, but the Cavs need EVERYTHING. I’m questioning the Thompson pick myself, but who else could we have taken that would impact scoring immediately?
@joe – So do you keep JJ at the 5 with Thompson at the 4? With Twan and Andy off the bench to show off their trade value?
They don’t need 4 people with the same skill set playing the same position Doug. While he’s not a pure scorer at least Jonas would have at least given them a true Center. So maybe while they still weren’t scoring at one end of the floor they could have prevented the other team from scoring on their end.
I’m not complaining specifically about the draft. If the plan exists to trade for a wing and it involves moving JJ/Andy then great. But this team as constructed (which I was speaking to) is going to be the lowest scoring team in league history.
Don’t give me the Browns talk, if we had drafted another left tackle this year then I would have said the same thing and been right, just like I am now.
ok, here’s one idea at starting to fix the current conundrum of our roster (though certainly not the most ideal as Ellis is not very efficient. also, i would rather trade for a SF since we can play Baron at SG if necessary but really have noone at SF.)
AV, Gibson
for
Monta Ellis
financial flexibility doesn’t change much as the salaries are pretty much an overall wash. also, I think Monta ‘can’ play defense. at least he should be able to and Scott might be able to get him to do it.
i’d also like to steal Speights away from the 76ers (they drafted Vucevic, so his time is likely done there), but I don’t see an obvious way to do it unless the 76ers are willing to take our trash errr Joey Graham and one of those 2nd rounders we are stashing.
I think the biggest disapointment the amount of predraft things comin out that said the cavs were makin big moves tonight, and what we came to find was none of it happened. They were going to spend their assets and we could see the light at the end of the year long tunnel. BUt there may be more questions after then before about the direction of the team.
Also stockpiling 4s…. sounds kahn-esk….
Like most everyone else, I was expecting the Cavs to pick Jonas.
But, the more that I read about Thompson, he is being called one of the best paint defenders and rebounders available in the draft.
Also, he has an incredible work ethic, and his coaches at Texas have been amazed at how much he has improved in just one year in Texas.
I think he has a high ceiling, is willing to work very hard to improve, and can be a very good player.
Also… apparently his athleticism in tests has rivaled Blake Griffin. When defending Derick Williams in a game last year, he held Williams to 4 of 14 shooting.
So, we get perhaps a lock down defender who, through a hard work ethic he is already showing, might also develop into a player who can learn and develop a mid-range jump shot. If he does improve his offense, he could be a core player for the Cavs.
Also, I think that if Coach Scott wants to go stretches on the floor where he wants us to stifle another team’s offense, we can put AV, TT and Kyrie on the floor. So, this adds a new dimension to our game.
the next person to say the words “high” and “ceiling” in succession gets a kick in the balls.
I guess we’ll know if Jonas V was a bust or not in a few years. It seems to me that it’s incredibly arrogant to go with Tristan T over Jonas V, because we have clear position needs. “We chose to take the best player on the board.”
When you trade, you trade for specific needs. Unless there’s someone on the board who is head and shoulders above the rest, you take who you need. If you go who you rank the highest, it requires several assumptions about how you make your decisions.
1) That there’s a player who’s significantly better than the other players on the board. 2) That you know who that best player on the board is. 3) That your team will be better with a marginally better player who’s on the board but overlaps positions than you would be with someone who might be marginally worse, but provide strength in a new position.
But I fail to see how Thompson was a) clearly the best player in the draft, b) how the Cavs can be so CERTAIN that thompson is the best player over say – any of the other marginal lottery picks, and c) how this team, even if he was marginally better than Jonas V or Jan V, would be better off with an additional power forward instead of a true center or a true wing – both of which the Cavs need desparately. It strikes me as arrogant, short-sighted, and foolish.