Browns: Ryan, Daboll and Seely to Join Mangini
Written By: Scott | Category: Cleveland Browns | Comments: 46
Only a little over a week after Randy Lener deemed Eric Mangini the chosen one, the team decided to finally announce what many have known almost to the day that the former Jets coach joined the team: Rob Ryan, Brian Daboll and Brad Seely will accompany head coach Eric Mangini as they take on Operation Turnaround.
“I am extremely pleased to bring three quality people in Brian, Rob and Brad to our coaching staff and to the Cleveland Browns organization,” said Browns Head Coach Eric Mangini. “I know firsthand that all three are very experienced, talented and dedicated coaches who share the same team-first vision and are passionate towards our goal of bringing an NFL championship to Cleveland.”
Mangini knows this all first hand due to the fact that the four coaches were all together in New Enland between 2000-2003. Ryan will move from one rabid fan base to another – though with an owner who meddles considerably less in the team affairs. The PD reports that Ryan’s hands were tiedin Oakland, so we’ll see what he can do with less-talented linebackers. Daboll was the one who had to deal with Brett Favre last season, and is most likely thrilled to be out of that mess. Unfortunately, I’m not sure he’s aware of the one he is entering. And Seely will be responsible for running down the sideline with the windmill arm as Josh Cribbs attempts to take one to the house for an actual touchdown.
There have been many mixed feelings on all of the men listed above due to either recent misfortunes or the fact that Lerner is giving another swing at a group of former New Englanders. The outgoing coaches (Rob Chudzinski and Rip Scherer) are reportedly looking at San Francisco as a landing place. How fitting would it be for our coaches to end up with a head coach whom many wanted to lead the way of the orange and brown in Mike Singletary?
If there is any silver lining to all of this, it’s that the head coach actually had a say in his men which should ultimately lead to improved communication on the sidelines. Of course, we still have to pair a general manager to these four men but that’s a different task for a different day. Or week. And this is all assuming that George Kokinis will be alright with the recent selections. If he waits much longer, there will not be many more decisions to be made.
Author: Scott
Scott is a co-founder/editor of Waiting For Next Year who resides in Cleveland, Ohio. Feel free to follow him on Twitter or email him at scott@waitingfornextyear.com.Scott has written 2088 articles for Waiting for Next Year.
While other successful young coaches hire veteran coordinators with demonstrated levels of success (Tomlin, Harbaugh) and newly named young coaches do likewise (McDaniels), we get the same bag of inexperience at the given role and/or released coaches with losing track records:
Brian Daboll (Do they even play football in Ontario?): ROOKIE as OC
Rob Ryan: DC of a perenial bottom of the pack defense
Seely: Released from New England contractually, and who cares?
Same old same old. Instead of surrounding himself with proven experienced coordinators, we get Brian “Ontario” Daboll and his pair of Schwinn training wheels to run the offense. Makes one long for Mo Carthon.
Check out the coordinators and their backgrounds for those young coaches who go on to win. (Harbaugh: Cam Cameron/Rex Ryan….Tomlin/Dick Leabau…..).
As Browns fans all we can do is wait and see if it works out. At least there will be a cohesive team of people to blame when it all goes wrong or right. With Romeo and the Carthon debacle, we ended up having a split fanbase. Some people blamed Savage. Some people blamed Romeo. Some gave Romeo credit for a 10-win season. Some people gave it all to Chud. Chud was clearly not Romeo’s decision.
It got to be the point where flowcharting was necessary.
I still don’t know what to think and I am remaining somewhat skeptical, but maybe these people can at least give the team an identity. I really hope that scouting department is looking hard at linebackers to come in and make a difference off the bat.
They may work out great, who knows… but the reason Lerner told us he rushed to hire Mangini was so that he’d get first crack at the top level of assistant coaches and coordinators.
Are these guys really the very best coordinators available?
Am I the only one that’s underwhelmed? I’ll admit that I’m not an expert on NFL assistant coaches, they may be superstars, I don’t know.
I do know that Rob Ryan’s defense in Oakland ranked 22nd or lower every year except 2006 (ranking lower than the Browns most years), and Brian Daboll will be a rookie OC. After Mo Carthon and Chud, shouldn’t we be looking for someone with experience to shape the offense?
WHOA RANDY!!!! NOTHING makes us long for Mo Carthon. NOTHING!
Of course, RandyOSU covered my points while I was posting.
Oakland’s defense was actually pretty freakin good for the talent it had on it. You think Cleveland needs help on defense. Have you seen Oakland’s roster?
Just out of curiosity Randy, who would you have hired for the coordinator positions?
MacNip makes a good point…i’m actually very pleased with Ryan as DC. they played pretty good last year.
OC – not sure of though…guess i’m willing to drink orange and brown kool-aid though.
and as far as Special Teams goes, shouldn’t we just make josh cribbs our special teams coach?? he is the best return man, and leads us in Special teams tackles…if he could make everyone on Special teams play as hard as he did, we wouldn’t need someone to coach that unit!!
Rock – are these the coordinators that Lerner was worried he’d miss out on if he conducted a comprehensive HC search?
Macnip – I believe Oakland’s defense was ranked lower than the Browns all but one year during Ryan’s tenure there (when they were ranked 3rd in 2006.)
I’m tellin ya, MJ and I seem to be on the same wavelength!!
Rock…….coordinators with demonstrated success at the position they are being brought in at, given we have a young coach. I’m not the coach and I’m not connected……so it would make little sense for me to throw out names of who I’d hire. All I can do is provide you with some of the many examples of young coaches who surround themselves with such, and they typically succeed. Those that don’t, don’t.
Rock-clear example is Josh McDaniels IMMEDIATELY bringing in Mike Nolan to run his defense (given he’s an offensive guy). Mangini brings us a ROOKIE offensive coordinator…….very low odds of success, comparatively.
A huge reason you hire a Head Coach in today’s NFL is for his ability to ATTRACT top quality coordinators and staff, and that should be a key part of any interview process. The other part of that equation is the new Head Coach’s willingness to bring in such experience for grounding purposes-Mangini fails out of the box on both counts.
The guy was coaching THE RAIDERS. How can anyone succeed when the crypt keeper is running the team?
http://www.ugo.com/images/articles/000904400/904299_big.jpg
@mj: show me where I have ever said the reason Lerner hired Mangini for the coordinators he would bring in. Seriously, I’d love to see it, because I do not believe that thought has ever once crossed my mind.
@Randy: so, your answer is Mike Nolan? And you are sure he was willing to come work for Mangini? Don’t get me wrong, I’m just trying to see where you’re coming from. You seem to have a lot of answers, I’m just curious what those answers are.
Just remember, EVERYONE was a rookie coordinator at some point.
And so from what I gather, your whole point here is that the Browns shouldn’t have hired Mangini because he cound’t bring in Mike Nolan? They should have hired whichever coach could bring in Mike Nolan? That’s a fascinating POV.
The bottom line is, I get your point, and I’m arguing extremes here I realize, but what I’m trying to say is I don’t see any Cam Camerons out there. Would you have us hire Mike Martz?
If a coordinator has demonstrated success at the position they are being brought in at, why would they be available in the first place unless they failed miserably as a head coach recently (Nolan & Cameron), or, like in the case of Tomlin & Harbaugh, established successful coordinators were already in the organization (Rex Ryan & Dick LeBeau).
I have no idea if this regime will succeed or not, but it seems silly to count them as failures in the middle of January.
@mj – I realize the Raiders were ranked lower than we were, but look at the players they had. Go back to 2006 and look at their talent compared to now. You can’t blame the defensive philosophy there. To tie in Randy’s argument, Mike Nolan couldn’t produce results with that lineup. Nolan was in Baltimore, a team that is ridiculously loaded with talent. Who’s to say that he succeeds in Denver? Their roster is just a tiny bit worse than Baltimore’s. Lets give Ryan a chance before we jump off the bridge huh?
Chud was a rookie OC and everyone loved him. Lets give Daboll a chance before we pass judgement.
P.S. – Tomlin didn’t bring anyone in, he just was smart enought to stick with what was working.
Rock…..I NEVER said Mangini should hire Mike Nolan, I was just pointing out one example of a young coach hiring an experienced coordinator, get it?
Yes, everyone was a rookie coordinator once-and typically under veteran successful head coaches that can groom them in that role.
You are not making your point by trying to rebut a rookie hire merely by throwing out other inconsequential names. And, while YOU don’t see any “Cam Cameron’s” there a veteran coach just might pry one loose, given his connections.
I’d have us hire experienced COORDINATORS, not QB coaches-not under this young defensive minded coach……get it?
MacNIP-contrare, Tomlin was hired under the condition he keep Lebeau. Pittsburgh ensured they would bring Tomlin in under veteran coordinators, thus increasing greatly the odds of his success. That’s what good organizations do.
Lerner has no organization, nor a plan. This has all been done before by this naive egocentric owner.
Head Coaches in today’s NFL are successful in great part based upon the coordinators they put in place, particularly young head coaches. (please don’t point out Bill Belichick……he’s the exception not the norm-all of his disciples have failed on their own due to his singular control of his team).
I’m not trying to make a point. I have no clue if these guys will do a good job or not, but I’m not the one saying these guys are incapable of doing their job. I have no opinion one way or the other. I think Rob Ryan is quality coach, but I don’t know anything about these other guys. But you’re being like the people who say someone was snubbed from an All-Star team, without saying who should be removed in their place. If you don’t think Daboll was the right hire, then tell me who would have been.
And don’t say “pry one loose”, because that’s EXTREMELY difficult in the NFL when guys are under contract. You think the Ravens are going to let Cam Cameron out of his contract to go somewhere else as an OC? No chance.
All I’m saying is it seems a bit funny to me to be this mad when we don’t know yet how these guys will do. Lets at least see what they can do so we can then have some basis to our arguments.
I have to agree with the optimistic(?) crowd on this one. I am willing to wait and see with Ryan and Seely although I will admit that Daboll’s quick ascension does concern me given the qb play of his previous team (Chad? Brett?). Specifically with Ryan, it will be interesting to see how he does if his hands were indeed tied in Oakland and hopefully given a commitment to increasing the talent level on that side of the ball in Cleveland. Lastly, besides Mike Nolan (who I think Rock as already covered), the great coordinator hires mentioned (Rex Ryan, Leabau) had combined for almost twenty years coaching at their respective franchises and weren’t going anywhere.
Rock….whether you like it or not, I’m entitled to my opinions. And in my opionion, the odds of success here are extremely low. You are entitled to sit, watch, and wait before rendering judgement-this is too far gone for me to to that with this time.
I repeat, Brian Daboll comes to this job without the requisite resume/experience. Not necessary to throw out names to make that point……any names would include prior OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR or HEAD COACHING experience. (regardless of what names I’d bring up you’d deadpan them, which would continue to miss the point).
Finally……I didn’t say Daboll was incapable of doing his job-just not a pick that has high odds of success. He may indeed work out, but it’s certainly not a pick that a confident young Head Coach would make.
The “basis” for the argument is past performance usually dictates future success. The other “basis” is that Randy Lerner is leading this process.
“contrare, Tomlin was hired under the condition he keep Lebeau. ”
Can anyone validate this? I don’t remember that being the case, and I’ve been searching news articles for the last 10 minutes and have been struggling to find any truth to this statement. I haven’t found anything that contradicts it, either, except for this line in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review (not always the must trustworthy of newspapers):
“Tomlin’s hiring will likely bring a shakeup in the Steelers’ coaching staff less than a year after they won the Super Bowl. Grimm won’t return after being passed over, and 69-year-old defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau and his renowned zone blitzes probably will be gone, too.”
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_489701.html
Anyway, just wondering if that’s a true statement or not.
@Randy: I just think it’s funny that you can’t give me any names. If I were arguing a point as strongly as you are, I would certainly be able to back it up a little more.
You’re entitled to your opinion, and I’m entitled to ask you about your opinion. I’m really just trying to understand where you’re coming from because your POV doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. No harm intended.
Just found this one as well which seems to indicate it was Tomlin’s choice to keep the old coaches….this one from the Post-Gazette:
“One of Tomlin’s first priorities as the Steelers’ coach was to retain LeBeau, who will be 70 in September, to run the defense, an indication he is not ready to abandon the 3-4 defense the Steelers have played since Cowher became coach in 1992.
When he decided to retain all but one of the defensive assistant coaches — only secondary coach Darren Perry will not be brought back — Tomlin sent another strong signal that he is not ready to switch to the type of defense he learned under Tony Dungy at Tampa Bay and employed last year as defensive coordinator of the Minnesota Vikings.”
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07026/756994-66.stm
My only contribution to this discussion/tantrum is that none of us know who Mangini ASKED to be his coordinators. Perhaps he asked Mike Nolan (just for the continuity of the discussion) and Nolan said NO.
There is a fallacy of argument in sports sometimes (especially relative to FA signings and trades, I find) that infers that just because “Option A” happens, it must mean that “Option B” was not considered. This is obviously not the case.
Now, this would speak to Randy’s point that the problem runs higher up, which is not something I completely disagree with. That said, I understand what Rock is saying as well: if you’re upset that one person was hired, it tends to imply that you had someone else in mind, e.g. I was upset that Mangini was hired because I wanted them to at least talk to Shanahan (and, well, HIRE A GM) first.
Well some of us are pessimists and like to live our lives and some of us try to find the bright side of things.
I like to give things a chance to play out before I judge them…call me one of those optimistic types
I will openly admit I need typing lessons. Just to complete my thought from above….pessimists like to live their lives in misery
@Rock – I wasn’t implying that you said that–I’m sorry if my posts read that way. Lerner himself sold that as one of his reasons for moving so quickly to hire Mangini… so he’d get first crack at assembling his coaching staff with top-tier talent. Not trying to be argumentative, just curious whether you thought these guys warranted the rush.
@MacNip – I’d argue that Oakland’s defense has more and better playmakers on their defense than Cleveland. Was it Pioli that was quoted as saying that we only had one player on defense that would be able to start for Baltimore or Pittsburgh? I mean, we’ve got Shaun Rogers–that’s about it. Oakland’s Asomugha is light years better than anyone on our defense, and I’d take their linebacker corps over ours any day. Aside from Rogers, they’ve got us beat on the defensive line. It looks to me like Ryan underperformed with OAK’s defense relative to ours in spite of having better overall talent.
He may do great in Cleveland, it seems most think he’s a good pickup. I just don’t see him having any great resume–I’d prefer that Mangini surround himself with coaches with proven pedigrees. Which, I thought, was the reason that The Randolph told us he had to hire Mangini so quickly.
Personally, I have a hard time finding fault with the Ryan hire. His family bears a great defensive pedigree. Not only that, but judging by the dearth of talent on the Oakland defense in the last 5 years, how can anyone say that his defenses did anything but overachieve under his guidance?
@DP – valid point. It’s worth noting, though, that it was reported the day Mangini was hired that these were his guys (except for special teams, which was rumored to be the Broncos’ Scott O’Brien) and they were reportedly at work in Berea the day after Mangini’s hiring announcement.
He may have had discussions with others that weren’t made public, but since they were all but with him from day one, and look remarkably like that 2003 NE staff, appearances are that this was the crew he wanted from his first discussions with Lerner.
@Seaward – the Browns haven’t exactly has a plethora of talent on defense, either, yet they’ve outperformed Oakland’s defense most years. Does that not bother you?
Ryan’s family may have a great defensive pedigree, but it’s not fair to assess Rob based on what Buddy or Rex has done. Look at Paul Brown vs Mike Brown. There are plenty of examples.
@mj: don’t sweat it, I just misinterpreted what you said and was confused by it. To answer your question, no, I do not think Daboll and this Seely guy were worth the rush. I do think Ryan is, though.
I mean, you say “proven pedigree”, Ryan bleeds defensive pedigree. He’s been around it all his life. He was widely considered one of the absolute best LB coaches in the NFL.
I’m not too worried about Oakland’s performance. You may be right that Oakland has better talent on defense than Cleveland does, maybe not. But nobody would argue that Oakland is one of the most talented defenses in the NFL. I haven’t read more than 1 or 2 people who have had anything bad to say about Rob Ryan as a defensive coach.
@mj – I didn’t mean to say that other discussions DEFINITELY took place, but sometimes people can tend to have blinders. Let’s face it: a coordinator job with this franchise at present ain’t exactly at the top of the “awesome” list to many around the league.
It’s like every year when fans of teams say, “Why didn’t (GM) go out and get (player on the trading block)?” Maybe because he COULDN’T.
Again, not sayin’, just sayin’.
#29
Ozzie and Jose Conseco?
Cal and Billy Ripken?
Sylvester and Frank Stallone.
Also, 32 comments and none of them in reference to my MSPaint creation titled “Cleveland Rhapsody.” Talk about disappointing.
Matt and Kevin Dillon
Jessica and Ashley Simpson
@DP – I get where you’re coming from, and agree with you. I just feel like it’s a reach in this case to think something else may have happened that we weren’t privy to, that’s all.
@Rock – Perhaps “pedigree” was the wrong word to use… I just tried to make that point in response to Seaward.
I know I’m absolutely in the minority in my skepticism of Ryan… I just would have preferred somebody who has documented success as a defensive coordinator somewhere else. I don’t think what he did in Oakland fits the bill. That said, he’s certainly more attractive than any of the Crennels or Granthams or Tuckers that we’ve had foisted on us here in the expansion era… I just had different expectations.
@Craig: Those four aren’t very far apart…
And it’s “ASHLEE”
@mj, You know what I meant, haha.
While we’re here, though…
Wayne and Brett Gretzky
Rocket and Qadry Ismail
But those are also sibling connections… father-son connections are usually better. Like the Griffeys or the Hulls or the Stillers.
*Brent
Father-son correlary: Ted and John Henry Williams
Siblings correlary: Venus and Serena Williams
Scott, I see a little silhouetto of a man…
Can we get confirmation on the mock album cover!!!?? Was that a Genesis album cover that was the inspriration? It’s killing me!
Queen, my man. Queen.
Nice work, Craig.
Eh I skipped most of the comments and just wanted to add my 2 about Ryan.
LOVE the Ryan brothers, and I like that we got the caveman version. He’s been able to take average linebackers and make them look exceptional. Hell, with the addition of him we may be able to get the Raiders star cornerback in free agency. People have to remember what the Raiders defense had to put up with during Ryan’s tenure.
1. Having to take the field after a many 3 and outs.
2. During that time frame Gerrard Warren was their starting tackle.
3. A defense can only defend so long with no time off the field before the other team takes advantage.
He’s the son of Buddy, lets hope we see an 85 Bears defense come out of this.
Umm, Jack, explain to me how #s 1 and 3 differ from the 2008 Browns…