Cleveland Cavaliers, Free Agency Wasteland
July 3, 2009Tribe Relievers – A 2009 Anthology
July 3, 2009I just finished reading Rock’s piece on watching our beloved Cleveland Cavaliers continue to get passed over by the top free agents this week, while simultaneously rolling out the red carpet for the Big Freeze, Shaquille O’Neal. As Rock points out GM Danny Ferry was busy at a press conference while Rockets GM Daryl Morey was on a jet to Las Vegas stealing Trevor Ariza for the mid-level exception. Meanwhile, Lakers GM Mitch Kupchak was snagging Ron Artest for the same money. This is not a knock of Ferry, but the facts are the facts. I just get the same sinking feeling; doesn’t this seem like we are replaying the Michael Redd/Ray Allen/Larry Hughes situation all over again?
First off, I never bought into the Ariza rumors. I’m sure the Cavs had interest in the lanky small forward who burst onto the national scene during the Lakers championship run. But before May, had I told you that the Cavs big free agent acquisition was going to be Trevor Ariza, half of you would have said “who?” and the other half would have looked at his averages of 8.9 ppg, 4.1 rpg, and 31% from three point land and said “to give this guy five years and $33 million is ludicrous.”
On the Artest front, when in the ESPN Los Angeles studios last night, the “Tru Warrior” himself stated that he has been in LA since the season ended and has always loved the city. Reports have his deal being an option for either three years and $18.6 million or five years and $33 million. That is clearly where he wanted to be all along. Take your loyalties out of it – All things equal, where would you rather play for the same money – LA or Cleveland?
While the Cavaliers could have given the same deal offers to Ariza or Artest, it comes down to one simple fact – nobody knows what Lebron James is going to do after this upcoming season.
Think about it. If you are Charlie Villanueva, Trevor Ariza, or Ron Artest, do you really want to sign a three or five-year contract to go to Cleveland when you have no idea what the team is going to be like after the first year of your deal? As much as we don’t want to hear it, it’s a distinct possibility that The King will leave, Shaq will follow him out the door, and then you are left in cold weather Cleveland in the post-Lebron era essentially with Mo Williams and a collection of role players.
Is that something top NBA free agents are williung to risk for less than their market value (Artest and Villanueva) in the mid-level exception?
The is the harsh truth folks. And that is why we are now on to guys like Shawn Marion – a known diva who according to one well respected NBA insider is his ” least favorite player in the league,” Anthony Parker, and Linus Kleiza.
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Side story time.
If you have read Jack McCallum’s book Seven Seconds or Less chronicling the 2005-06 Phoenix Suns, you will find Marion as one of the more fascinating aspects of the story. McCallum essentially portrays the 6’9 forward as an extremely insecure guy who needs constant affirmation from his coaches, teammates, and fans. Not to mention his tendency to lose focus on what is most important.
For example, McCallum describes at one time out during a Suns game, Marion actually took notice that the cheerleaders during a dance routine all were sporting Steve Nash or Amare Stoudamire jerseys. He then went to the front office to complain because Stoudamire was out for the season at the time and he was the one who was busting his butt 40 minutes a night. Marion actually wanted to know why the cheerleaders weren’t wearing his jersey.
For all of his talent, there is a reason he has been on three teams in the last two years.
31 Comments
One reason to live Cleveland over LA is you can get more house for your money!
To hell with it, bring on Marion.
If Lebron leaves for NY, you need to change the name of your website to:
http://www.waitingfornextdecade.com
“The Matrix” is one movie that I do not want to see as a Cavs fan.
I guess you can always cheer on the Tribe rather than wallow in such CAVS negativity my friend. ESPN probably has it all wrong with their #5 franchise rating right? Sure, lets wallow in the thinking that LBJ won’t be back……..regardless of that slim possibility.
It sure sucks to be a CAVS fan these days doesn’t it?
heh heh…true story, Wil. jeez.
still don’t think he’s leaving, but you make an excellent point in this post, TD.
So, what happened to everyone thinking the Cavs weren’t going to ruin their cap flexibility for next year?
The truth is that there are still very respectable players available in free agency and trades that can still be made. Did anyone see the Mo Williams trade coming last year? Why don’t we just wait and see what happens instead of panicking
‘Cause then we can’t talk about it and worry and think that all is lost before they even play a game this year.
How ’bout them Brownies!
“wait and see what happens”
The whole point of this site has always been to react to sports news and stories as they happen. I don’t feel like waiting and writing about the Cavaliers a year after everything happens. Sorry.
while I understand everyone wanting to see what LBJ does, but will Gilbert as an owner and businessman do nothing if Lebron leaves? If the 2010 FA class is so stocked, and if LBJ leaves, won’t Gilbert spend the Lebron money on another frontline FA? Or am I being too optimistic about this? Yes Lebron is on another level, but Gilbert has to be working on a plan B.
This post pretty much sums up what was on my mind in regards to free agency. All of these players are signing multi year deals, and you have to wonder if the Cavs were ever willing to do that. The Cavs and their cap space situation as of right now allows us to sign both Lebron and another max contract next year. If we sign anyone to a multi year, that wittles away at what the Cavs can do with that flexibility next year. I have a feeling that the thinking never changed and that Ferry and Gilbert were never going to offer any player more than a year. Most reports I’ve seen all say that Bosh is going where Lebron goes, and as of now, the only team with the cash, flexibility, competitive roster and the ability to sign both is Cleveland. Which is where the Cavs want to be. So to everyone that’s upset with how this offseason is going, wait until next year. I have a feeling we’ll forget about all this when the Cavs announce the signing of both Lebron and Bosh on the same day.
Clevo and Cribbage–here’s the concern: the fact that time and again (not just this offseason) the big name guys don’t come to Cleveland unless they are traded here. Money being equal, the Cavs can’t seem to attract anyone of note. So yes, Gilbert and Ferry could conceivably go after another of the big-name FAs (Bosh, DWade) if LBJ doesn’t come back. The problem is who is going to want to? Our argument for Bron staying is we can pay the most. Well that’s true of the other big-name guys in the class of ’10 as well–so why would they take less to play in Cleveland, sans the King? As for James, if he looks at this offseason as any indication of the team’s ability to draw big names to help him make a run, he can’t be encouraged by what he’s seen thus far. If the Cavs come up short next year, he could easily decide that the best chances for Cleveland have passed, and it’s time to move on to somewhere more desirable to top-flight talent.
Completely disagree with #11 Cribbage on this one.
1) Why would the Cavs sacrifice a possible title in 09-10 for the *chance* that Bosh comes to Cleveland next season?
2) Even if the Cavs have LeBron and Bosh, they will have no center next season. Do you really think that LeBron, Bosh, Mo, Delonte and Boobie can beat a Lakers team of Bryant, Gasol, Odom, Artest and Bynum?
This Artest thing really is a nightmare.
I think its rather foolish, at this point, to assume that we are going to be able to lure any of the 2010 free agents of note. Once again, we are coming to the crushing realization that our city is cursed.
Whole lot of overreaction going on here.
– Who says Ariza is the real deal? Nice waste of cap space if he’s mediocre.
– Who says Artest was ever considering Cleveland rather than where he lives? The Cavs wanting Artest does not mean Artest wants the Cavs.
– So Ferry doesn’t get his butt on a plane and mke a personal pitch. How did that work on his last trip to close a player deal in Brazil?
– If memory serves, we ended up with Larry Hughes because Allen and Redd resigned contracts with their own teams, for more than we could offer. Imagine that crazy headline: “NBA Player Accepts Largest Offer.”
When a player turns down significantly more money from us, that will be “woe is me” time in Cleveland. From these posts and comments you would think we pulled the short straw again and have the slowest, stupidest, least-proactive GM in the league.
http://sportsradiointerviews.com/2009/07/03/dont-talk-to-paul-pierce-when-hes-playing-craps/
anyone who bought into the story that the celtics’ big 3 were all trying to woo rasheed in person ought to read this little tidbit. kind of funny if true.
harv 21 – well said. i hate hearing the argument that we can only get players to cleveland by overpaying. EVERY free agent in the nba is overpaid. how do you think houston got ariza? THEY OVERPAID!! we would have overpaid even more to get him (assuming we could have paid more, which we cant).
@Harv:
Not sure what you mean by “real deal”, but every analyst I have read agrees that Ariza is a solid young player who is improving and well worth the MLE.
As for Ferry, he went to Brazil to circumvent AV’s agent. How on earth can you even possibly be sincere in comparing that to Daryl Morey flying to Vegas to meet with Ariza? Nobody is suggesting Ferry should have tried to cut out the agents of Ariza and Artest again. We all remember quite well what happened last time he tried that.
What’s the obsession with “we gotta do *something*” on this blog suddenly? All seriousness: The Cavs won 66 games last year despite a nice string of (smaller) injuries to key players not named LeBron, and were beaten by a ridiculous rain of 3s in a series where most games were decided by 5 or less while double-teaming a force down low. If just having [yes, an aging but still effective] Shaq cuts down on just 5 Magic points a game, who is beating the Cavs this past year? This coming year?
You’ve got every key member of last year’s team along with a hopefully substantially grown Hickson, a healthy and energized Shaq trying to show he can play two more years and cement his legacy as “I can win any star a championship”, and another summer of LeBron working on his game and Molonte improving. Let’s not forget these guys are still in their early-mid 20’s, not finished products.
Blowing money now on token players (the only guy of interest was Artest, and he was clearly set on LA) would just ruin any chance of picking up Bosh and whomever to replace Shaq, Z, et al on the front line after this year. The Cavs are clearly set on winning this year with this team, and then continuing to win afterward with whatever they can sign after the year.
And I wouldn’t rule out a midseason trade for Bosh, either, if Toronto starts thinking “ya know, we really should get something out of this guy”. Let’s not forget why the Cavs held their first-rounder.
Suddenly? We’ve been wanting the Cavaliers to build a team around LeBron for years.
We can agree to disagree, though. I’m not going to be hoping and praying that Chris Bosh actually wants to come here. He would have to take less money, and the Cavs can’t even offer him a max contract because they won’t have the cap space. My preference would be to be proactive and give the LeBron the best collection of young talent he can lead for years to come.
i gotta say that was not overly impressed with any of these guys, cv, artest, or ariza to begin with and i don’t think its time to hit the panic button yet. the shaq trade does plug a hole for us and it brings with it a whole nother level of awesome to an already damn good team. the way i see it, if danny ferry can pull one more acquisition with half of the impact that mo brought to this team last year, i say we are well on our way to getting parade down euclid.
@16: Rock – I agree that it’s possible Ariza may be real good. And obviously Ferry’s Brazil trip was for different a different purpose. But the implication that he lost out by sitting back all self-satisfied in Cleveland and enjoying a press conference instead of elbowing other GMs out of the way to knock on doors is not based on any fact I’ve seen reported. It’s unfair to accuse Ferry of passivity given his history here. Bad judgement, sometimes. Deliberateness, sure. There’s just nothing at all here to indicate that the Cavs didn’t do something possible to land a player they really wanted. Maybe everyone is over-caffeinated about these particular free agents because we have nothing else going on in Cleveland sports right now. And I hope that we don’t get Sheed, at any cost. I hate everything about that guy, including the current state of his game.
The cavs do not have enough cap space to sign two players to max contracts next year.
They will have some cap space, to sign a relatively large contract (i.e. 10-12M/yr) but they will not be able to sign two people to max contracts.
The amount they will have depends on what happens with Andy.
Good write-up WFNY peeps. Thank you for covering this stuff.
I’m not really worried at all about this whole FA situation. Let’s go through each FA.
1) Charlie Villanueva- He was offered more money by Detroit.
There was nothing we could do to stop that. Also, it’s important to note how Boozer messed up the market by not opting out, causing Detroit to set its sights on CV.
2) Ron Artest- The dude has a home in LA, and he’s been wanting to play for the Lakers since 2005. Also, since Artest was adamant about only playing for championship contenders, it is only logical that he signed with the defending champions.
3) Trevor Ariza- In this case, I’m not really sure what happened. Ariza would have been a really nice addition for us, but for some reason, he chose to sign with Houston. I guess he must like the weather down there or something. Regardless, I don’t think it was a lack of effort on our part… Ariza was probably dead-set on joining some kind of Western, warm-weather team. Also, it looks like he really won’t have to be a fourth option on offense anymore with the Rockets.
That’s it (if I’m not mistaken). These three guys didn’t come to Cleveland. That’s not a real reason to say that the sky is falling or anything like that. Now we just have to take a deep breath and get back to it. Knowing Ferry, he’ll probably be able to work a little magic and get some reliable talent, either through free agency or a lopsided trade.
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I’m with Harv, Ezzie and omnikaush on this one. Charlie Villanueva and Trevor Ariza aren’t going to haunt this team for years to come. I think their value has been a little inflated this summer because it’s a fairly weak free-agent market. The only guy who would have really been a coup to get for the MLE would have been Artest, and yet he’s never won a championship.
You know who’s won four of them? Shaq. I say we go after teams next year with a solid lineup of Molonte, LeBron, Shaq and some fairly good role players (Zydrunas, Varejao, our biannual exception guy, our MLE guy) and hopefully get some found-money contributions from Hickson and Jackson.
We’ll have assets to make a move at the deadline if we need to, and Boston and Orlando are running in place with their free-agent moves this summer (does anybody think nearly washed-up guys like Rasheed Wallace or Vince Carter are going to put anybody over the top?).
We may have added a past-his-prime name this summer, too, but at least Shaq’s a proven winner and fills some major needs for us. If we finally get a crack at the Lakers, I like our chances.
[…] as TD mentioned last week, Marion is a bit of a diva. The reason that a lot of Cavaliers fans are high on the recently-drafted Danny Green is due to […]
I could see marion going to Cleveland on a one year deal but that’s about it. A sign & trade w/ the raps might make sense
My problem is this, if the trouble signing free agents stems from Lebron’s contract status then the Cavs are being handcuffed to improving this team for Lebron who is a threat to go elsewhere if the management fails to put talent around him. Can you guess who has all the power there. I hate this thought but what could the Cavs get in trade for there superstar. Your out here looking ways to strengthen this team by adding a low post presence Shaq’s been added now a 4 upgrade is being looked at by resigning AV & adding a McDyess or Marion a wing defender A.Parker or M.Barnes is also being sought. So I guess welcome to the NBA.
Could SF/SG S.Marion be the Pippen for L.James & the Cavs? Lets all remember Szczerbiak that the Cavs have a possible sign & trade using him. So I’d sign Marion with the MLE & with bi-ann get A.Parker or M.Barnes. I’d then look on the trade front with the possility of using both sign & trades plus a draft choice to go after a top tier 4 like Amare, Boozer, Bosh, etc. Imagine this L.James, (top tier 4), Shaq, M.Williams, Marion w/ a bench of JJ.Hickson, D.Jackson, Z, D.West, A.Parker, D.Gibson T.Kinsey J. Williams & D.Green. If a trade can’t be made now at the trade deadline going with AV at the 4 using a combination of L.James & the kids to back AV. We have yet to see the full potential of JJ.
I gotta say, you’re right about Marion. He’s kind of a cancer, and I don’t want him because of it. I’m happy the Cavs stayed away from ‘Sheed, as I think he’ll implode the Celtics next year. Now, do we tade Z? I know we could get Kirilenko right now for him, and probably Boozer. But I appreciate that Ferry and Brown want high character guys. I’d love to see them go after Gerald Wallace, but I don’t think Larry Brown’s that dumb. So, who should we be going after? Atheletic swingmen: Gerald Green and Von Wafer. Lets get guys that can shoot, run, and go to the rack. It’s not rocket science.