Derek Anderson Named Starting QB – The QB Conundrum Re-Re-Redux
So, here we are. The smoldering rubble that is the Browns’ first three games are still on our radar, and in addition to the fact that the team has been outscored 95 to 29 we now are right back where we have been so many times before: two mediocre quarterbacks, one starting job.
Derek Anderson “lost” the job in training camp (because saying Quinn “won” it is a stretch), and yet after 10 quarters of lack-luster offensive (and I do mean OFFENSIVE) football, there was #3 under center in the second half on Sunday against Baltimore. If only he had done something to clear the waters. Three bad interceptions later, we’re right back where we started. No offense, no quarterback rising above the fray.
All of that having been said, DA has been named the starter this week against the Bengals. I started out writing this post before the announcement by wondering: “So, if you’re Mangini, what do you do?” I know a lot of you would say, “Fire yourself,” but we’re not here to debate that. What we ARE here to debate, however, is which QB really *should* start under center this Sunday and beyond.
In looking at the data, I myself couldn’t come to a conclusion. I’ve lobbied for Quinn all pre-season, and I think Mangini messed up big time by pulling him, if only from the standpoint of confidence and continuity. However, as the numbers will show, it’s not as though Quinn was somehow wronged egregiously by getting pulled. And, if DA struggles this Sunday, where do you go from there?
The Case for Quinn
Age: 24
NFL Experience: 3rd Season – 7 games played (6 starts)
Measurables: 6’3”, 235#
Career Stats: 93-for-171 (54.4%); 963 yards (5.63 yds/att); 3TD, 5INT; 64.5 RAT
Obviously, we have a small sample size on Quinn. I think his stats have been affected by the lack of talent on offense this year, but Quinn has certainly not risen above that by any stretch. He has been rushed in the pocket due to lack of consistent pass protection, and the overall lack of a consistent running game has made the coverages that much tougher to throw against (since the defense doesn’t have to cheat up to stop the run). But, these factors can’t explain away the fact that Quinn has looked skittish in the pocket, and has been unwilling to make a lot of longer throws (under six yards per attempt? Wow!).
The lack of touchdowns is not a problem unique to Quinn; in fact, the last two games in which the Browns scored offensive touchdowns (Denver and Buffalo last season – [edit, 3:27 PM] – no, I wasn’t counting the TD against the Vikings; it was the definition of a meaningless garbage TD. Also of note is that this article has been up for 4+ hours and no one called me on this oversight) were games that Quinn was the starter. That said, it is alarming that he has only three touchdowns in 171 attempts (a TD every 57 attempts). That said, the silver lining is that he’s been relatively careful with the ball (an INT every 34.2 attempts). However, what can perceived as Quinn’s greatest strength can also be a bit of a weakness. There comes a time when the QB needs to take some chances down the field. I can’t tell you how many times during the Denver game when the Browns were still in the game but were on the edge of falling out of it where I wanted Quinn to take a shot.
The PD’s Dennis Manoloff has been charting Quinn’s performances (h/t to reader Brendon Yarian), and the numbers from Sunday were startling: in his 8 pass attempts (yes, he only threw eight times in the half), he threw the ball a grand total of 32 yards beyond the line of scrimmage (four of his throws were actually behind the line of scrimmage when they got to the receiver). His one long throw (30 yards downfield) was incomplete.
Quinn obviously doesn’t have the arm that Anderson has, but he definitely has more athleticism. This isn’t to say that DA is a horrible athlete, but Quinn is certainly more mobile and is generally believed to be more accurate on the move and on the shorter, check-down passes. To that end, given the offense that Mangini would most likely ideally run (ball control), Quinn appeared to have a leg up. Now, not so much.
The Case for DA
Age: 26
NFL Experience: 6th Season – 32 games played (27 starts)
Measurables: 6’6”, 230#
Career Stats: 517-for-946 (54.7%); 6287 yards (6.65 yds/att); 43TD, 38INT; 73.7 RAT
I have long advocated for Quinn to start during this lost season due to the fact that we have enough of a sample size to know what we have in Anderson. I feel in the interest of being honest I should throw that onto that table at the outset; I tried to pull these numbers and look at this debate as objectively as possible. The fact remains that the situation was ripe for DA to come in and wrestle the job away from Quinn; I think that’s the main reason that Mangini made the move. He wanted to see if DA could take the job convincingly. DA did not do that, sadly.
DA obviously has the bigger arm, and the double-edged sword with DA is that he is willing to take more shots down the field than Quinn. This can be good, as he had more drives that moved the ball on Sunday, and for his career his TD/att ratio is better than Quinn’s (a TD every 22 attempts). It can also be catastrophic, as DA threw three bad interceptions on Sunday, one of which was on a deep ball where he threw into triple coverage while being locked onto his receiver the entire time. Compared to Quinn’s numbers of attempts per INT, DA’s is a much more alarming rate: an INT every 24.9 attempts.
DA’s accuracy has always been a concern; his proclivities for missing passes on shorter routes and throwing balls behind receivers are legendary. He missed a third down pass that sticks in my memory from Sunday where he had Mike Furrey on an out-route, and the ball was at least three feet behind Furrey (and was almost a pick-six the other way).
So, what does all of this mean? Basically, if we look just at the numbers and extrapolate both QBs playing 16 game and throwing 35 times (560 attempts), DA would throw 25 TDs and 22 INTs while Quinn would throw 10 TDs and 16 INTs. This obviously isn’t an airtight prediction; but it is indicative of the differences between the two QBs. With Quinn, you get a more careful, but potentially lower-scoring offense. With DA, you potentially get more points, but you get more turnovers.
The rub that doesn’t show up in the numbers, however, is that DA has almost always had a knack for committing his turnovers at the wrong time. Cincinnati in week 16 of 2007. Baltimore in weeks three and nine in 2008. Indianapolis in week 13 of 2008 (fumble for the only TD of the game for the Colts). It looks, however, as though the idea of actual points despite the potential for more turnovers is a risk Mangini is now willing to take. It won’t matter if you protect the ball more if you’re not moving it at all and not scoring.
Sitting at 0-3, it’s hard for me—as a Quinn supporter—to honestly argue with the move from that standpoint. Unfortunately, there’s no going back from here. Mangini HAS to stick with one QB, feast or famine. He can’t keep going back and forth.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:03 am
Even John Kerry thinks this flipping and flopping is getting old. LOLOLOL!!!!
September 30th, 2009 at 11:04 am
This is a disgrace. After pronouncing BQ as the QB, and also pronouncing that as the long-term decision, we get this. After 10 quarters, a heralded rookie QB is shattered, body and soul. After DA on tape performed last year and the second half of the prior year. Anyone still in the tank for Mangini……..be satisfied in taking this program down in dog ears rather than facing reality. As experts know, the QB is far from the issue in the current Browns offense. Take the latest from Trent Dilfer: (go ahead, bash him as usual instead of listening to the message).
Former Browns quarterback, and now ESPN analyst, Trent Dilfer describes the Browns as a team that lacks offensive creativity.
Dilfer directed those comments at offensive coordinator Brian Daboll under the direction of Eric Mangini. Dilfer says Mangini held the New York Jets’ offense hostage last year, and he’s doing the same thing in Cleveland.
Dilfer says in a CantonRep.com article:
“I would argue that Tom Brady and Peyton Manning could not be successful in the Browns’ offense right now.”
September 30th, 2009 at 11:06 am
This is a pure desparation move, can’t you see it? Desperate people do desperate things, particularly when trying to SAVE their job. One year and out…..book it.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:07 am
Jets look hella lot better this year without Mangina(and that’s with a rookie QB.) Food for thought.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:09 am
c’mon guys….3 INTs in one half of ball? He HAS to be our starter! Makes too much sense. My only hope is that they trade Quinn somewhere with a competent coaching staff. He didn’t look NEARLY this bad last year – this is clearly a case of coaching…
6 for 8 in a half proves ONE thing….they only let him throw the ball 8 times!
September 30th, 2009 at 11:10 am
Mangini screwed Brady right from the start with his sham of a QB “competition.” As a starter for the first time Brady needed all the snaps he could get during camp and instead of giving them to him Mangini thought it was more important to keep opposing coordinators guessing as to who our starter would be. Does the guy really think that coordinators lost any sleep while trying to figure out how to defend DA or Quinn? Much more damaging then being a jerk and an egomaniac, our head coach appears to be delusional.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:12 am
Shamockery?
September 30th, 2009 at 11:15 am
I never thought I’d say this, but I agree (IN PART) with Isis.
This move smacks of desperation to score points and try to compete, instead of trying to develop a long-term option. Though the numbers bear out that DA is probably the better QB right now, I always thought that Quinn had the higher ceiling.
That said, Mangini probably knows that he can’t sell, “This is the long-term move,” to a fan base that wants his head on a plate at this moment.
Where I disagree with Isis is the “one and done” “booked” prediction. I don’t think he’s gone after this year.
@#4: this is true, but you have to give Mangini *some* credit for the foundation that’s there. How much is up for debate. Not sayin’, just sayin’.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:17 am
I wish I had the Bengals defense in fantasy this week.
At this point, I really think Mangini is trying to lose.
Hopefully, Brady will get a fresh start next season on a franchise that actually has a clue.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:19 am
Boom, I can’t wait until Quinn goes somewhere with a skilled playcaller and a line that gives him a chance to make a read.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:20 am
@Isis: Me and you finally agree. I don’t give a damn what Trent Dilfer has to say, or Merrill Hodge either. But, I do know that Quinn Deserved this ENTIRE season to start, I do know that DA is garbage. He’ll move the ball down field and throw a pick when it counts. He isn’t that accurate and he doesn’t make good reads. Look at all the tape and anyone can see that, even during the 10-6 season.
I really think Mangini should be fired now. I didn’t before, I said he should stay the course and continue on for at least 2 years. But, I feel that he has no sense of whats going on, is too egoistical and has too much control. Lerner sack the F*** up and do your job or please just sell the team to Mark Cuban.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:21 am
The only reason I’m somewhat ok with this is b/c they’ll probably end up saving millions b/c of the clause in Quinn’s contract where he has to play 70% of the snaps. Not saying that’s a reason to make a decision, but the Browns are obviously awful and don’t have faith in Quinn, so might as well cut their losses, I guess.
That being said, Mangini’s wavering is ridiculous. I pray that the Browns management sees how inept this team has been under Mangini and gives him the boot after 1 yr (I doubt they do it and lose even more money) and bring in a guy like Billick, Gruden, Holmgren any of the experienced NFL coaches available right now.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:22 am
What are the chances Quinn gets traded to Dolphins or Seahawks?
September 30th, 2009 at 11:22 am
Something else that was interesting that I didn’t have time to dissect in this article: read the Manoloff piece breaking down Edwards’ route-running on Quinn’s INT. Brady took the heat for it post-game, but that INT was on Edwards and Daboll.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:23 am
That is the funniest picture I’ve seen in a while. “Oh yeah. Don’t drive on the railroad tracks!”
September 30th, 2009 at 11:28 am
Asked about his future in Cleveland, Quinn said, “Now I’m done.”
September 30th, 2009 at 11:29 am
@#15: one of my better Photoshops of all time, thanks. Original post/pic here.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:30 am
As I said on Monday, there is no controversy when both players stink. I am not in the tank for Mangini, but I am still just watching and waiting to see what happens. I have all the same suspicions and observations as the rest of you, but after three games, I still don’t know how this whole deal is going to play out.
If it were me, I would have named BQ the starter again this week. Right now, there are four guys who aren’t doing themselves any favors. Mangini, Daboll, Quinn, and Anderson. None of them look very good right now.
I bet the Bengals are practicing their interception returns this week in practice. They probably hired Jeff George to come in and run the practice team to simulate Derek Anderson’s game.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:30 am
I have to believe this is a money-centered move. The front office believes (and rightly so) that Quinn did not show enough to justify the money they’d spend if he takes 70% of the snaps.
That being said, I agree w/ everyone that the change is ludicrous. Not just b/c I support Quinn starting and am sick of seeing D.A. throw games away with his “big strong arm” (They look like big strong hands); but because we are an absolute JOKE.
I hate this franchise right now. Honestly, I’ve been watching Bengals and Steeler games instead b/c I don’t get as nauseated watching them.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:33 am
We’ll trade BQ and draft a rookie w/ our #1/2 overall pick. Some team (Minnesota/San Francisco/Jacksonville/Tampa Bay) will be happy to take him off our hands for a 2nd round pick.
We’ll start all over w/ a new front office and new QB….AGAIN.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:34 am
Brady’s biggest mistake was holding out after he was drafted. If he would have signed on time, he would’ve beaten out Frye and Anderson and would’ve benefited from starting with a very good line, a healthy Lewis, a receiving corps with Joe J, and a weak schedule. If he doesn’t get his 70% of the snaps this year, think about how much money he cost himself.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:35 am
We can draft QBs until the cows come home, but if we can’t run and block on offense you could put a Joe Montana/Peyton Manning super-clone back there and it won’t make one bit of difference.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:35 am
The downfall of Quinn is he flip flopping of Mangini. He is afraid to take risks down field because he is afraid to get pulled. This coupled with the screen and dump offense of Daboll leads to a lack of offensive production. This is the problem, not Quinn. DA wont do any better
September 30th, 2009 at 11:36 am
@22: That was sort of my point, but I didn’t make it very well.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:38 am
Backup QB throws three picks in one half of football…PROMOTION!
September 30th, 2009 at 11:39 am
Perhaps everything we were hearing leaked during the draft about neither QB being a capable NFL starter, which is why we were considering Sanchez, was right on the money.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:40 am
From the ESPN artilce: “I felt like I went out there and did what I can do,” Anderson said. Great, I hope he doesn’t do what he can do this week.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Don’t worry guys, this is 2007 all over again! DA is going to come in and lead us to 10-6. Right?
September 30th, 2009 at 11:41 am
This was an absolutely terrible move. Derek Anderson has hit his ceiling and is well on the way down. It’s time to stop playing for the moment, Mangina. You’ve got to let Brady Quinn take his lumps and see if he can develop… your team is NOT going to the playoffs this year, so please stop trying to make moves to get them there.
This decision just makes absolutely no sense to me.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:42 am
“And, if DA struggles this Sunday, where do you go from there?”
DP, I think you probably deep down wanted to write “when DA struggles”. I’m convinced it will happen.
The issues run deep in this organization. I realize you know this. It’s really hard for me to watch games any more.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:43 am
Lerner is running this franchise like a frozen banana stand.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:43 am
@#15 & 17: Completely agree. That pic is absolute hilarity.
“Well, Phil, that’s one I happen to agree with.”
September 30th, 2009 at 11:45 am
Maybe if we wear brown helmets this week . . .
September 30th, 2009 at 11:45 am
You know what’s gonna happen? DA is going to come out guns blazin and have a great game against a suspect secondary. We’ll get our hopes up and then we will revert back to sucking. You can take that to bank.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:45 am
My analysis:
I have strong feeling that the reason we had that long, drawn out quarterback competition was that Mangini NEVER wanted to name Quinn as the starter in the first place but was waiting for Derek Anderson to unequivocally prove that he was the better quarterback. When that didn’t happen, Mangini went with the politically viable move and went with Quinn, the former 1st round draft choice and the inexplicable fan favorite, over who he knew was the more talented quarterback. Anderson had basically been run out-on-rail by the fans after the Cincy game in ‘07 and someone nobody wanted to succeed in Cleveland simply because fans resented him not being Brady Quinn. A mentality I will never understand.
Personally, I feel its ridiculous to think because Quinn hasn’t had a large enough sample-size in games that we don’t know what we have in him. Yes, We as FANS don’t know what we have in Quinn. But the coaching staff and the organization? Guys who have been around football all their lives? They KNOW exactly what they have in Quinn. They watch him practice every day. They’ve seen him in the pre-season. They’ve seen dink-and-dunk his way to failure in seven games. We shouldn’t throw away a better quarterback because we want our ego as fans validated.
What we have in Quinn is a journeyman quarterback (if even THAT) who can’t throw the ball down field and doesn’t have the poise or confidence to move the ball down field with even minor success with a terrible offense. What we have in Anderson is a gunslinger who will make unbelievably stupid plays but will put points on the board.
This poor, poor Brady Quinn nonsense needs to stop. Personally, I feel worse for DA simply because the guy is capable of being a borderline Pro Bowler and was tossed aside in favor of pursuit of fool’s gold.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:46 am
This move is absurd. Quinn has never truly been given the opportunity to succeed or fail in this league without having to look over his shoulder for DA. Last year, when DA was benched and Quinn was the guy, he played fairly well. Enter Mangini and Daboll’s awful offensive playcalling and this QB “competition” and Brady regressed under the pressure. I can’t remember a young QB placed into a worse situation to succeed. Hell, even Tim Couch was given an opportunity to sink or swim for a few years, with Kelly Holcomb only getting in on the act after an injury to Couch.
I too mostly agree with Isis on this one – QB is far from the biggest problem right now facing the Browns. If we have to pass on a sure NFL-stud defensive player like Taylor Mays in next year’s draft to get Bradford or McCoy I’m going to be sick. This move smacks of desperation and does nothing to show that Mangini has the long term interests of this franchise in mind.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:46 am
Brett Favre:
“Mangini made the right choice. I think.”
September 30th, 2009 at 11:48 am
from a lifelong Brown’s fan … I am done!!!! … Go Bengals!!!!!!!
September 30th, 2009 at 11:51 am
This does not apply to the people here (who for the most part actually understand sports)
Watch the mood of the town switch if DA beats Cincy. I find it really funny. Morons will come out of the woodwork saying we could be 3-1 if DA had just started the season.
I am at the point now where I want Quinn to go elsewhere and stick it to us for the next 10 years.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:53 am
He’s not MY Quarterback. I didn’t vote for him.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:54 am
Horseballs is back!!
/golf clap
September 30th, 2009 at 11:58 am
At least DA will throw the ball down field. We all know he is not the answer, but Quinn sure didn’t give off any confidence either. You can’t play timid at QB. Not when your team can’t run the ball.
DA will be DA for the rest of the year. Quinn will net us a much better draft pick (as compared to DA) in a trade and we will be drafting a QB at the top of the 1st round next year.
The worst part of all of this is that my dreams of getting Taylor Mays were probably just killed as well
September 30th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Quinn’s not an NFL QB and DA will never be embraced by the fans. Seems both are done in this town. We should have a high draft pick. Okay we will have a high draft pick, so let’s get rid of both and start over at the position. We need a franchise QB and neither of these two are it.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
whatever…it’s an idiotic move regardless of who’s “better” at this point.
With that said, Anderson needs to work on ONE THING first: stop staring down your target from the snap until you deliver. Use your peripherals, Anderson. I can follow your head every game and almost every play to find out who you’re throwing to.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
DocZeus – I think the problem most people have with that theory is that we have to trust that Mangini and Dabol know what they’re doing. I don’t trust either as talent evaluators (Vernon Ghoulston FTW) and their indecision to pick their QB shows their lack of confidence in themselves.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
Kevin Kolb is a free agent after the season. I’d rather sign him (who’s worked with Andy Reid the last couple of years) instead of drafting a QB and relying on this staff to make him a successful NFL QB.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
#35 DocZeus I 100 percent agree. The Quinn apologists g
here are hilarious.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
I don’t understand why you all think Anderson is not accurate on short balls. Did you not see this screen pass against Baltimore that was threaded perfectly on to Harrison’s big toe?
September 30th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
I said I thought the Browns would be worse this year than last… but I didn’t REALLY believe that until now. Went from BAD to DISGRACE & LAUGHABLE.
Are they making a new “Major League” for the Indians or the Browns or both?
September 30th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
So glad I have zero emotional investment in this team.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
Whose line is this?
Year1998 Games 16 Starts 16 Wins 3
Comp Att Pct Yds YPA TD Int Att Yds Avg TD
326 575 56.7 3,739 6.5 26 28 15 62 4.1 0 Rating71.2
He led the league that year in attempts, and led the league that year in interceptions.
It was his rookie year.
His first 4 years in the league he had a record of
3-13
10-6
13-3
6-10
Who was this?
Peyton Manning.
If you don’t want to make the comparison I will.
Welcome to Cleveland, where QB’s come to die.
We ruin QB’s. If we aren’t going to stick with someone ANYONE long enough for them to learn then we will never be more than 8-8. Quinn’s career here is done. Let’s trade him for an Offensive Lineman so we can begin a build from lines like we should have done all along.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
And with the first pick in the 2010 NFL Draft, the Cleveland Browns select Tim Tebow, quarterback, University of Florida.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
Not that we would get a good pick for him with what he’s done thus far this season (doesn’t help he doesn’t have a QB who can get it to him), any possibilities of trading Braylon to playoff bound team in need of a WR? I mean they’re obviously scrapping the season and there’s no may he resigns at the end of the year, might as well try to get something for him.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
@Boomhauer: That’d be a great signing. In all reality he’s probably better than both of them. But you know how much we’ll have to pay him!? Probably Drew Brees type money, just to come here.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
I can only hope that as this crazy season continues, Randy Lerner is secretely negotiating a deal to bring in Bill Cowher to run this organization as GM and head coach next year.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
55 – That would imply that Lerner also secretly cares about the well being of the franchise.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
2 mediocre quarterbacks, 1 starting job
Am I the only one who laughed?
I’m done with this team until Lerner is gone. The abortion that’s existed the last ten years isn’t the Browns. The fans and the city deserve better.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
Unless Randy bumps into Cowher at an Aston Villa game, I don’t see those two ever talking….
September 30th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
WITH ALL THESE COMMENTS YOU WOULD THINK THIS WAS SOMETHING IMPORTANT, LIKE THE GAY GAMES OR SOMETHING!
September 30th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
@#52 Painsville: I hope that was sarcasm. If so, THERE’S A FONT FOR THAT.
If this team picks a QB with their first round pick, I will light myself on fire. Unless that QB is Jesus Christ himself (pretty sure He was first team all-state and can put the ball anywhere He wants. He can make it rain out here…), there’s literally no point in wasting the pick. If we don’t have a running game and right-side pass protection, I say again there’s literally NO point in drafting a QB at the top of the draft.
No one will EVER convince me that it’s a good idea for a bottom-rung rebuilding team to draft a QB #1. DA has another year on his extension. If we’re resigned to DA as our QB, let him play out his contract, stock up on linemen, pass-catchers, and running backs. Then–and only then–would I be on board for taking a QB at the top of the draft. Only when the team is in a “one player away” mindset on offense should they spend THAT MUCH MONEY on a rookie QB.
To do so next year is basically setting yet another QB up to fail before he even starts, and to pay him $40+ million to so do.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
I fear #34 nailed it.
One thing with DA starting – it won’t be dull.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
We have 7 draft picks.
Pick 7 QB’s.
One of them is bound to work out.
Just sayin’….
September 30th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
I don’t have a problem with this team drafting a real QB with their first pick. A real QB, not some athletic hybrid QB, but a real QB (i.e. Sam Bradford, Colt McCoy). Have you seen the free agents at Qb next year? They are terrible (you are kidding yourself if you think Kolb is going anywhere)
September 30th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
@#35 DocZeus… I know I’m late here, but that’s absolute bunk. To quote Allen Iverson, “we talkin’ about PRACTICE.” I’m a Virginia Tech Hokie fan… love them. Our quarterback the last two seasons was Sean Glennon. He sucked and blew every opportunity he was given. Why did the coaching staff keep handing him opportunities? Because he was good in practice. Practice v. game experience are two very different things, and the coaching staff is really just making an educated guess based on practices. Our sample size with DA is large enough to know what we have with him come game time… our sample size with BQ needs to grow before we really know.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
This isn’t the 1990s yet, but it’s headed in that direction. The Mangini hatred is starting to approach the level of Belichek hatred. I remember a mob at the old Stadium after a loss chanting “Bill Must Go” outside one of the doors that led to a tunnel down to the locker room. And that was BEFORE Belichek cut Bernie.
Maybe Lerner will move the team to Los Angeles.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
so…
would you rather have
A. Mark Sanchez and Rey Maualuga
B. Brett Ratliff, Kenyon Coleman, Abram Elam and Brian Robiskie
Well done Mankok.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Interesting situation for the rest of the season … “interesting” like a car wreck.
Was completely neutral about Mangini until now. Interesting how a veteran head coach has managed to totally paint himself into a corner in 3 weeks. All the quarterbacks probably hate his guts now, including the third stringer who must feel it should be his turn.
Good news is it’s more entertaining to watch the Nuke Laloosh of the NFL sling balls all over the field rather than Anton Check-Off.
But no way they’re firing Mangini his first year. We’ll have at least another year of this.
September 30th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Boomhauer’s comment (#21) is something I’ve been saying for years and I think has been forgotten. If only Quinn had showed up he could have very conceivably beat out Frye/Anderson and we could be in a whole other place right now. So thanks to Boomhauer for remembering.
September 30th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Did Mangini think the Browns had chance winning last game against the Ravens by putting Anderson in? Did he honestly envision winning the game by the doing so? If the answer is no, then why in the hell would you put Anderson in to begin with? He just opened up Pandora’s box again. We’ll never find out what he have in Quinn. He’s going to demand a trade and he’ll probably end up a HOF’er. We stick to Anderson who as we already know is way too inconsistent to be a starter. I love this team, but right now, it is being killed by poor leadership and poor ownership. I think it shows that Lerner has no grasp on his team whatsoever. I feel bad for the players on this team and I feel bad for the Cleveland Browns fans, this is just disgusting
September 30th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
[...] the Indians decided there is, in fact, something wrong with a little bump and grind, and the Browns going back in their QB wayback machine, we hear from Brian Windhorst that Delonte West was again absent from practice this morning. And [...]
September 30th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
@64
If you suck in practice, you are going to be good in games now? In the history of existence, that’s never been true. It’d be one thing to if Quinn was executing well on occasion and making foolish plays. But Quinn hasn’t shown ANYTHING to suggest that he’s remotely qualified to be an NFL starter thus far. That speaks VOLUMES. The offense under Quinn is just as anemic as when Bruce Gradkowsi was our starter.
As for the ridiculous notion that Quinn would suddenly succeed if he didn’t have to worry about his job? UM, WHAT?! Do you really want a quarterback that is so temperamental that the pressure of beating out another mediocre quarterback in practice for a job has permantely ruined his psyche?! How’s he going to perform in game situations then when things actually matter if he can’t handle a competition with Derek frickin’ Anderson? And you could EASILY apply that same ridiculous notion and suggest that Anderson would still be a Pro Bowl quarterback if he didn’t have to worry about Quinn, too.
I don’t understand why everybody would rather throw Anderson under a bus for the prospect of chasing fool’s gold.
September 30th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
What does Joe Flacco, and Ben Worhtlessburger have in common? They have great defenses, and good offensive lines. I agree with DP Diesel, until we build up our defense, and get some talent on offense, it won’t matter who we put at QB. So Painsville:
WITH THE FIRST PICK IN THE 2010 DRAFT THE CLEVELAND BROWNS SELECT:
TAYLOR MAYS; SAFETY FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA!!!!
September 30th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
@ Jeremy – I’d rather have Eric Berry. He was by far the best player on the field in the UT/Florida game.
September 30th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
BTW Isis I actually agree with you for once. Except for the whole one and done thing. Randall is not going to pay Romeo, Mangina, and another head coach.
September 30th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
I agree with Denny … but my worry is more about Taylor Mays becoming too big not to play Safety and having to move to and LB (though I hear we need those as well)
September 30th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
DocZeus has obviously never seen DA play if he thinks Brady Quinn “is so temperamental that the pressure of beating out another mediocre quarterback in practice for a job has permantely ruined his psyche?! How’s he going to perform in game situations then when things actually matter if he can’t handle a competition ”
That is the definition of DA
September 30th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
@Denny: Either one, but you get what I am saying. NO QB.
The only problem I have with Berry, and it is a small problem, he is a junior.
September 30th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
#76
That’s my point. It’s a ridiculous notion to suggest that Quinn or Anderson would be better quarterbacks if they didn’t have competition. What I’m saying is that I’d much rather take the guy who took us to 10-6. Simply because Anderson has talent. Quinn doesn’t.
September 30th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
@71: So you coach the browns now huh? You and Isis aren’t doing a very good job.
September 30th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Huzzah for outcommenting the Gay Games, folks!
September 30th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
It’s silly to use DA’s 10-6 season as a justification. That was a totally different team on so many levels. If anyone is arguing for either DA or BQ wholeheartedly they have a tough, tough argument to make.
September 30th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Denny @ 59
That made me giggle. A lot.
September 30th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
Anderson’s 10-6 season was an anamoly. We played the easiest schedule ever that year and got career years out of Braylon and Winslow that year (they probably made 10-15 spectacular catches each that year). That season was the perfect storm for Anderson. We didn’t win because of his ability, we won because the other teams sucked so bad
September 30th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
The 10-6 season…..oh yeah, the same 10-6 season where we were on the verge of clinching a playoff spot, needing only a victory over the Bungles to get it, only to have the DA toss prosecutorial discretion out the window with 4 (4!) picks, including 2 on consecutive plays to gag away the game and, ultimately, the playoff spot?! Yeah, we are way better off with a clutch performer like that at the helm. I look forward to his next lob into quadruple coverage that goes back for six, as well as his confused panic in the two-minute drill where he wastes time-outs, only to be called for a delay of game anyway. Can we just get a couple of clowns, a family of trapeze artists, and a monkey on a unicycle and commit 100% to this circus act? No need for a dome, just throw a colorful big top over Browns’ Stadium and have at it.
I’m no Quinnbot, but the kid deserves better in this case. Here’s wishing him good luck wherever he ends up.
September 30th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
#60 DP Deisel – that wasn’t sarcasm, nor was it a wish of mine, but my prediction of the future. This organization is dumb enough to make that pick.
September 30th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Cincinatti Game 2 years ago. D.A breaks loose. I will start Braylon this week in fantasy football.
September 30th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
for the first time in my life i am going to be rooting against the Browns this weekend.
September 30th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
D.A.L.O.L. pics:
http://kardiackid.blogspot.com/2009/09/moose-from-scappoose-is-back.html
September 30th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
I wish Quinn luck, too, wherever he ends up…like in a coaching position at Notre Dame. Kid sucks. Plain and simple. He threw the ball backwards. Only Dolphins placekickers manage that. Oh, and my neighbor’s son – he’s 7. Anyway, at least the Browns will be exciting to watch again. At least when he throws picks it will be into triple coverage, not because DBs and safeties giggle to themselves as Braylon fakes the deep route…haha, Brady? throw the deep route?! Surely you must be…and it’s intercepted!!!
September 30th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
I really believe that DA is not the answer and should be traded. BQ may not be the answer (and he hasn’t played well) but let him have a chance. This team has so many problems.
DA choked in the Pro Bowl – he looked awful. He choked in the Cincinnati game 2 years ago – in fact he only played well for 1/2 of the season.
I’m still a Browns fan but vowed early this year that if DA started that I would be done. I’m done and won’t watch.
September 30th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Well, the interception return for TD is an exciting play, can’t argue with that….GREAT TO HAVE YOU BACK DA
September 30th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
And this isn’t random. Or a flip-flop. This was his plan all along. That’s why he kept it so “close” and waited so long. So that when this inevitably happened, it wouldn’t seem like that big a flip. He knew the fanboys here needed Brady, so cute and everthing, and so strong with all the Myoplex (which helps him at his job). So, he said, “He won, but barely. Here’s what you have in him.” Mangini knew that you never could win with Brady. I called this almost perfectly. I just didn’t think he would get in for game 3. I have told everyone I know who and I think this blog that DA would be starting when we returned home. Stop calling this desperate or random. IT WAS ALWAYS THE PLAN.
September 30th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
DA makes me laugh….when he trips over his own feet….TWICE on the same play.
September 30th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
@ WhereIsBernie – You know you’re gonna watch. We can’t turn away. Besides, you’ll be happy with what you see. Different plays. Throws longer than ten yards. Brady Quinn wasn’t even good in college.
Are you really going to talk about DA choking? Do you know how many top 15 teams the mighty Quinn beat at Notre Dame? ZERO!!! Talk about an all-time choke. How many years did he start there? How many big games did he win? Please, please don’t talk about DA choking (especially in the Pro Bowl? what — that’s like saying, Jason Kidd choked because he had 5 turnovers in the All-Star game throwing three alley-oops out of bounds).
September 30th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
Wow, someone get Isis in here, stat–he might have some competition! Time for a know-it-all dance-off!
September 30th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Cleveland fans deserve every rotten thing that comes to them. Can’t wait for this to blow up in that Devil Mangini’s face; and mark my words, it will. It always does for the Browns. They alway shoot themselves in the foot.
“Only in Cleveland” once again.
September 30th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
I demand that Ratliff be added to the site’s QB poll.
September 30th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
@94 I think we can say DA choked. You can try and turn this into a “BQ sucked in college, so DA didn’t choke” but that doesn’t make sense. At all. Also, well done avoiding discussion of the cincy game.
I hear Tim Couch is still looking for a job…
September 30th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
@94
actually Quinn didn’t suck in college.
look at ND since he’s been gone.
But it’s cool man, keep on hating on ND.
September 30th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
100!
September 30th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Dalmations!!
/DCBucks’d
September 30th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
How about the Ravens games last year when DA lost the first by throwing two picks inside his own 20, one of which went for 6, and then threw a screen pass to Terrelle Suggs to complete the collapse in the second game? Yes, I know Edwards dropped what could have been the coffin-nail TD pass, and that’s not on DA. But, when the chips were down, HE THREW A SCREEN PASS TO THE OTHER TEAM. A SCREEN PASS!!!
September 30th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
#1 This team isn’t going anywhere this year or next.
#2 DA is a career 54.7% passer, with a 73.4% QB rating, placing him among notables like David Carr and Gus Ferotte.
It all comes down to what you think BQ’s ceiling is. If you think he could someday better than #2, you play him, as there’s nothing to lose because of #1. If you think he’ll never be able to sniff those numbers, trade him for a bag of balls and move on.
If Quinn is ever going to be decent, he needs game time to learn. When better than in a lost season? (Actually, Mangini & co should have been realistic about our chances this year, and used the whole preseason as learning time for Quinn.)
September 30th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
I heart Isis.
B-Bo, do you really want BQ under center? Or are you just frustrated that we don’t have a QB.
Wait, that’s wonderful! BQ is the opposite of a QB. Of course, his names are interchangeable as first and sur. What do you think? Think if he changed his name to Quinn Brady he could “turn things around?” – get it? turn things around? BQ – QB. Giggle…
…seriously though, I don’t mean to sound like a smarty pants. I am just frustrated like the rest of you and believe that you can’t throw 29 TD passes (although certain games skew this stat) on accident. I think we have a former pro bowler and we should at least give HIM a chance. I mean, his receivers didn’t just have a an “off-year” last year; they led the league in drops.
In other news: I heart Mustard. It’s why Cleveland sports fans are superior in every way. You simply can’t get away with logical fallacies like you can elsewhere. I agree…Cincy sucked. And DA probably does too. But he’s strong, he can make throws Brady can’t. And I would rather see deep throws fail than Dink and Dunk submission. That’s all.
September 30th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
@ JJ – Look, saying Brady sucked in college is certainly hyperbole. But you know he’s not a big game quarterback. And he never will be.
Aside from that fact, local obsession with Quinn and ND is the only this was a “competition” to begin with. Otherwise, I firmly believe (and what does that matter, I guess) that DA would have been the starter week 1.
Let go. It’s just Notre Dame.
September 30th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/randy-lerner-must-sell-the-cleveland-browns.html
September 30th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
The local obsession is with thr young QB, not necessarily Brady Quinn. There was a period of time where everyone wanted Charlie Frye to play. Browns fans know the teams desperately needs a QB, and they also know the QB of the future isn’t DA, so we will grasp on to any kid with a pulse that joins the team with ‘QB’ listed as their position. That’s what happens when your team is pathetic
September 30th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
Honestly, Rob, I was not a Quinn fan in his college days. I agree with many of your criticisms and questions of his abilities based on his college credentials. However, I was not against the roll of the dice to pick him up in the draft when we did. Of course, fool that I am, I thought he might be given a chance to play and develop–you know, maybe get more than a handful of games to prove himself capable or not. Turns out, not so much.
I am frustrated with how bad the team is overall. However, I was not expecting playoffs this year, and was hoping we’d finally give the kid the keys and see what he can do. He has struggled, but not without help (or a lack thereof) from his teammates and coaches. DA had a season-plus to show what he could do, and he did: no mobility, poor decision-making, poor game manager—and that was when this team was going well. BQ, in my mind, should have had this season to show his stuff in games that matter (as in, not preseason or scrimmages). I’m not frustrated that we have no QB, I’m frustrated to think that we might, and we are blowing the opportunity to find out. Not that BQ can or would ever be Peyton Manning, but had the Colts been as badly run as this, they would have never known about Peyton either. The lack of patience is frustrating.
One thing I think we can all agree on: winning is good. Sadly, I don’t know when we might see it again around here. Dink and Dunk, gunslingin’ interceptions, who cares? Both equal an “L”.
September 30th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
My plan:
1) Trade BOTH Quinn and Anderson
2) Sign some vet QB to fill in for a year. Culpepper can’t be worse than these guys
3) Use our loads of draft picks we’d have accumulated for next year and draft a team. Right side of the O-Line, Linebackers, replace McDonald at CB, Safety.
4) In the 2011 draft, use our high first rounder to get a franchise QB. And stick behind him. The whole time. Every game.
September 30th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
My plan:
1) Trade BOTH Quinn and Anderson
2) Sign some vet QB to fill in for a year. Culpepper can’t be worse than these guys
3) Use our loads of draft picks we’d have accumulated for next year and draft a team. Right side of the O-Line, Linebackers, replace McDonald at CB, Safety.
4) In the 2011 draft, use our high first rounder to get a franchise QB. And stick behind him. The whole time. Every game.
5) ???
6) Profit
September 30th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Whoops. sorry for the double post guys
September 30th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
I am a fairly frequent visitor to this site, and sometimes check out the replies to the postings, but this is my first post. So I’ll try to make it significant.
First, this wasn’t Mangini’s “plan”- to have a quarterback “competition” where he would let Brady win narrowly and then after two and a half games of lackluster play calling just pull him. You’re giving him, DA, Brady AND Daboll too much credit. It seems like the only plan Mangenius has brought to Cleveland is the one that keeps his baby face from getting slapped too often. He’ll make the call which seems to give the lower chance for immediate scorn and derision and let the chips fall where they may. Infantile- yes. Working- No.
Next- This team is screwed eight ways to sunday. They have half of a line, no significant running attack, a frightened coach, two frightened QB’s, no offensive creativity or threats for big plays, a defense worn thin by all of these woes… and sadly, the hits just keep on coming. I’ve been a browns fan for my entire 23 year span on this earth, and every day it seems to be a little harder. I’m not giving up, but I am considering getting even. Starting sunday I will tailgate, and watch the game at the bar. I’m not pumping any more money into this mistake until the people getting my hard earned checks give me a reason to do so.
Mr. Lerner, Mangini, Kokonis, I’m waiting…
September 30th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
I have not been impressed with EITHER quarterback this season.
I was impressed with DA against the Giants last year, and Brady in his first game against Denver last year. Other than that, both have looked uncomfortable and inaccurate.
But answer yourself this. What quarterback WOULD look good on the Browns right now?
-We have no running game whatsoever.
-We have 1 legitimate wide receiver who is a headcase and drops passes regularly
-The right side of our O-line is in shambles
-We have a soap opera locker room and an organization that flip flops more than John Kerry
I’m not saying Quinn/DA are the answer. So far they seem like busts, but historycat brings up a great point about Peyton Manning.
I really hated the move to bench Brady in the last game simply because I knew it would amount to more of the same crap. Let’s say in all those missed throws BQ actually hit his target. Let’s say he “threw downfield” more. Who is he throwing it to? Edwards in double coverage? Josh Cribbs who doesn’t know how to run a route? Robiskie who’s inactive?
And they won’t play Furry because they’re rather player Robert Royal.
How could ANYONE succeed under center with this team and this organization? There’s only one guy that could salvage this team – Dan Gilbert.
September 30th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
DA would be better in the short term, but who cares?
Win 5 this year instead of 3?
Big flippin’ deal.
I rather Quinn has the chance to learn, and we get a better draft pick.
September 30th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
Are we really comparing Peyton Manning’s rookie season with Brady Quinn’s third season now? First off, even though, the Colts were 3-13 and threw 28 interceptions that year, Manning stilll threw for 3,700, 26 touchdowns and set numerous NFL rookie records that year. You could tell instantly Manning had it but just required discipline. Honestly, that bears more resemblance to Derek Anderson than it does Brady Quinn.
September 30th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
Is Brian Sipe available?
September 30th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
With only 116 posts as of this post it looks like apathy is kicking in big-time for Browns fans. I know we’ve beaten this topic to death but the lack of posts really shouts at me. I’m still mad and that is better than being apathetic, but I feel apathy coming on.
BTW – Where is Bernie? Wouldn’t he make a good coach or offensive coordinator? He can practically predict the defensive play before the play is executed when he calls the games. Too bad his commentator voice is a bit better.
September 30th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
Bernie was last seen tutoring Vick in the penn trying to work off some of that debt
September 30th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
I’m rooting for DA. Hope he does well. I bet Braylon is happy.
September 30th, 2009 at 8:40 pm
Unf***ing believable! Manwich already telling lies and losing the team, his press conference was hideous. I cannot believe that the team that I have loved and defended for 30 years is the laughing stock of the NFL — I think I am done. I am done with the Tribe after the stupid moves they have made. Victor Martinez…….come on! An actual great player that wanted to stay in town. Let him go, let Lee go, on and on and on and now they wonder why the stands are empty. I am not the smartest cookie, but jeez! Especially with the economic situation, do they think people want to go watch something that will frustrate them? I suppose when Grady recovers they will trade him also. Lerner, Dolan all losers. How about getting Shaq and LeBron to buy the Indians and the Browns? I am so ANGRY. But wait, did I hear Cleveland is going to have gay games? What the hell is that? knitting? badmiton? Just what NE OH needs something else for people to make fun of. I FEEL SO SORRY FOR BRADY QUINN. Did you notice when they pulled him they changed the play calling? If he would have only thrown two more picks he would probably would have gotten to stay in. I hope they lose every game. Maybe then Mangenius will get run out of town. Cleveland, Ohio, the greatest fans in the world do not deserve this. I am hearing the players are turning in complaints to the NFL about Eric??? He looks just like Romeo standing there on the sideline with no expression. Call Yellow Cab to escort these jerks out of town. WHEW!!!
September 30th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
i’m gonna say it one more time: the NY Post (i live in Brooklyn, for those who don’t know) keeps mentioning just how much the players HATED Manstupid. HATED HIM!! now they are a nice squad – and the Browns stink. Ugh, I am beside myself. I just had a baby 5 weeks ago and bought him all sorts of new Browns gear. Im never gonna exchange it for Giants clothes but I am in PAIN watching these guys. I love my Browns – please improve.
September 30th, 2009 at 9:07 pm
Well, good to see we hit on all cylinders with post # 120. Managed to even badmouth the international competition that will bring an influx of money into the town. Heaven forbid people get laughed at, that’s the worst!
September 30th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
Springtime for Hitler, and Germany!
October 1st, 2009 at 11:00 am
[...] I started writing my piece yesterday about the QB Break Down (double-entendre alert!), I never had an honest thought in my head that by the time I was done DA [...]
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:55 am
Just another bad decision from a horrible coaching staff and a horrible franchise. David Carr and Joey Harrington had their chances and failed. Payton and Eli Manning had their chances and are now top 5 QB’s. What happened to the Brady Quinn that played in Denver last year? Was his surrounding talent better? Was the coaching better? Did Mangini & company really shatter his confidence? Who knows…
The FAKE Mangini interview….
We’re gonna lose anyway so why not see what we got?
Mangini: The hell with that! I took a terrible team and made them worse. I got to do something to at least win 2 games, or even Randy Lerner’s man crush will ware off.
You don’t think you could get 2 wins with BQ?
Mangini: Well considering I’ve done everything I possibly could to destroy his confidence but castrate him, I don’t know.
You were going to castrate him?
Mangini: Yeah, but Daboll lost the knife. Daboll decided to just call crappy plays for him instead. Kokinis made sure to surround him with horrible talent and I used the Josh Cribbs experiment to seal the deal.
Do you really belive you can get 2 wins out of DA?
Mangini: Were gonna go out there and throw deep routes and try to do it Steve Spurier style. I really don’t believe the hours of game film on Rex Grossman err DA will show the holes in his game.
You think this will be more productive for the franchise then finding out if BQ is a Carr or Manning or somewhere in between?
Mangini: Its better for me. If I don’t win those 2 games, I’m going to end up on my knees waist level with Lerner again. Just like I was when I got hired.
Do you really believe that winning 2 games will be justification for you to keep your job?
Mangini: I’ve been doing some mouth exercises just in case its not. I’m sure I can pull off 3 wins next year after we botch the draft.
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:17 pm
[...] the big change that will continue to get national coverage is that of Derek Anderson replacing Brady Quinn, we get word from The OBR that there are also changes on the defensive side of the ball. The [...]
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Get this Mangoof out of town ASAP!!!!!!! What a horrible thing he has done. He is, and I can’t believe I am saying this, worse than Romeo. No wonder he offered RC a job to remain with the Browns, they are the same person!