More Of The Same From Berea
It defies logic. Despite what we might have thought, it appears that the more things change with the Browns, the more things might just stay the same. What Randy Lerner said after the loss to Chicago was that “Eric Mangini will not be fired during the bye week.” What Cleveland fans heard was “It’s only a matter of time really.”
According to an email interview (Are you serious? you can’t talk to a reporter face to face or even over the phone? An email interview in which no follow-up questions are allowed? Is this a joke?) with Tony Grossi, Lerner continues to defend Mangini:
Question: Do you see a scenario where Mangini would not be back in 2010? Lerner: No.
There you have it Cleveland. Randy Lerner can’t see ANY SCENARIO in which Eric Mangini loses his job. Not a one. 1-15? Mangini returns. Alienates every decent player the Browns might have on the roster? Still employed. Trades Joe Thomas for a third round draft pick and Joe Namath? Still your 2010 Browns coach.
Credit Grossi with at least asking the right questions. Like this exchange-
Q: Brady Quinn was benched after 2 1/2 games. Do you think he was given a fair shot? Lerner: Again, I do not get involved with personnel decisions or player evaluations.
Q: The appearance is that Quinn was benched so as not to achieve $11 million in contract incentives based on 70 percent playing time. How much has his contract contributed to his benching? Lerner: None at all.
None at all. But again, he doesn’t involve himself in personnel decisions. So in fact he wouldn’t know. And speaking about Quinn and the Quarterbacks…
Eric Mangini’s press conference was particularly interesting. Interesting for this tidbit-
(On if he has made a decision at quarterback yet)- “No, not yet. I’m really going to look at that in the context of the last eight games, look at the next eight games and evaluate it up to this point and also looking forward.”
(On when he will make a decision at quarterback)- “Probably early next week.”
As my beloved colleague Scott tweeted yesterday- “How in the world is this still a decision?”!! Seriously? You don’t know yet if you should start Anderson again? Please for the love of all that is decent and holy DO NOT PUT ANDERSON BACK UNDER CENTER! If you really have no confidence in Brady Quinn then put in Ratliff. But if Anderson starts after this mess how can you even call yourself a head coach? You know what analysts are doing now? They are trying to determine if Anderson or Russell is the worst starting QB of all time! That is the big debate when it comes to DA. Not should he start over Quinn. You are making this team a mockery…a sham…oh, you know.
What is flowing out of Berea right now is not describable on a family friendly sports site. Here’s a question I wish Grossi or someone welcome at a Mangini press conference would ask- How can you say these things week after week with a straight face?
LOUD NOISES!!
November 5th, 2009 at 10:19 am
I wish the looming NFL lockout would start now.
November 5th, 2009 at 10:21 am
OBSERVE: The 2009 Cleveland Browns Saga
November 5th, 2009 at 10:22 am
While all of this irks me to no end (as I know it also does to MANY other Browns fans) is the article I read yesterday where Mangini stated he’ll get input on who the new GM is. Since WHEN does a HC (or any employee for that matter) get to effectively pick their boss?!
I’m with you Rick; this just looks like it is going downhill at an alarming rate and I have to wonder what other organizations are thinking right now when they read these comments.
November 5th, 2009 at 10:30 am
No owner is ever going to say that he envisions his coach not coming back next year. That doesn’t mean Lerner doesnt really think that way
November 5th, 2009 at 10:30 am
I don’t think Lerner would have said in an interview “Yeah, there are some scenarios which would result in the firing of Mangini”. It seems like Lerner is playing it close to the chest and I hope he’s realized what’s going on in his organization. Maybe we’ll see more of him and next time it’s Daboll who gets canned. Followed by Mangini.
November 5th, 2009 at 10:33 am
This is what makes me think that Randy Lerner plays a good game when it comes to saving face; but he clearly doesn’t “get it.” Even if Mangini is going to have input on who the GM will be… Don’t Tell Everyone and it wouldn’t be an issue!
I really don’t see any scenario where the Browns will be back to competitiveness next year, so I’m pretty apathetic on who the Head Coach should be. All that I really care about at this point is that we have someone competent to make our draft picks for us. Get a new head coach in 2011 when we’ll actually have a shot at bringing it all together. If you resurrect Vince Lombardi next year, he’s still not making this team respectable next season.
November 5th, 2009 at 10:33 am
Are the Browns the bleakest franchise in the three sports that matter? (The NHL has too many ill-founded franchises to consider for this conversation.) They have to be the bleakest franchise in the NFL. Neck and neck with the Raiders. Maybe when Mangini grabs the neck of Rob Ryan and things turn violent (allegedly) we can take the cake. I can’t think of one NBA franchise as bleak as the Browns. Not one. Maybe Charlotte. Baseball – you have the Pirates. I think the list goes:
1. Pirates
2. Browns
3. Raiders
4. Bobcats
5. Chiefs?
6. Indians?
November 5th, 2009 at 10:34 am
I don’t want Mangini to name the starting QB now and give the opponent extra time to prepare. (Snort)
November 5th, 2009 at 10:42 am
This entire team and administration is well suited to each other. Mangini is an uncreative fool, and Lerner is a stupid fool for saying that there is NO scenario wherein Mangini would not be the coach in 2010. Wow.
November 5th, 2009 at 10:44 am
“OBSERVE: The 2009 Cleveland Browns Saga”
Failed 30 on 30 topic?
November 5th, 2009 at 10:45 am
“I read yesterday where Mangini stated he’ll get input on who the new GM is.”
He thought so. Was reported earlier today that this is not the case.
November 5th, 2009 at 10:45 am
your point about starting anyone other than DA is so spot on…..how could ANY head coach not make SOME change after these performances? there is simply no way that a coach could say that DA gives any team the best chance to win (other than the opponent). this is appalling.
November 5th, 2009 at 10:46 am
@11
Thank GOD for that; thanks for letting me know about that I didn’t see that report.
November 5th, 2009 at 10:46 am
Here’s a thought out of left field…..
Is Lerner pulling a Rachel Phelps? Trading away players for lesser-knowns, playing rookies, all in an attempt to tank the season & move to Miami. Maybe the promised Lerner a new stadium, a house on the golf course, and memership to the country club. Using Mangini as a patsie to take the fall knowing even the ‘Mangenius’ couldn’t coach this squad of losers into contention. Then during the bye week, Mangini brings in a cardboard cut-out of Lerner and for every win, they peel a piece of Aston Villa soccer uniform off to revel a Jim Brown jersey. The Browns, now inspired, win out the regular season, make the wild card, and go all the way to the AFC championship game, just falling short of the Super Bowl. (It’s a feel good story, really.) Roll end credits….
And, back to reality…..
November 5th, 2009 at 10:46 am
jack – interesting debate you bring up. i dont think the browns are the bleakest, but i do think they would be in the top (bottom?) 10. dont forget about the grizzlies and golden state warriors too. or the LA Clippers. i wouldnt put the indians in that discussion. even if you wanted to, there are plenty of other teams (like the royals, nationals, orioles, padres) who are head and shoulders worse off. its tough to analyze baseball vs. NFL/NBA since baseball provides very little in the way facilitating competitiveness between the small/middle markets and the big guns. at least the NFL and NBA have figured out theres a better product when theres at least a sort of level playing field between the respective market sizes.
November 5th, 2009 at 10:47 am
@11: scottie! that there is news we can use — link?
November 5th, 2009 at 10:49 am
@14- I think you should pitch that story to Hollywood.. That’s make a great movie.. Original
/sarcasm
November 5th, 2009 at 10:50 am
This says it all.
http://www.footballguys.com/dailyupdatephotos/buzzardsincleveland.jpg
November 5th, 2009 at 10:51 am
SHAMOCKERY!
November 5th, 2009 at 10:56 am
What’s Lerner so shy about? If i had that kind of money, I’d be cruisin around in a hot pink Rolls, babes on my arms, yelling aphorisms at everybody on a megaphone through the sunroof.
November 5th, 2009 at 11:00 am
For some reason, I actually believe what Lerner told Dawg Pound Mike. I think Mangini has 8 weeks to prove he can actually coach the guys on the team and improve them. If he can do that, then he can coach next year with the players the new GM brings in
November 5th, 2009 at 11:01 am
What did everyone expect? I can’t think of any sane, rational person who thought that we would be that good this year. Before the start of the season everyone was saying at best, maybe 4-12 if we’re lucky. On a lot of the internet most people we’re saying we won’t be able to see what we have in Mangini for a few seasons, see a couple drafts, let him get his players and systems in place, etc. All that takes more than one season. We fire him now, we set a precedent that we have no patience for any error, you must perform in year one, or you’re gone. No coach would want to come here under that pressure. None. I knew we we’re going to struggle this year, and most likely suck, but I wanted to see what happens in the next few seasons to build a long term solution through drafting and FA.
At the very least, Mangini took a bare couple of drafts and turned them into 19 picks in his first two seasons (counting next year) and a horrible cap situation and got us the second most cap space in the NFL.
Like I said, we knew we were going to suck, and we suck. We knew it would take time, but now, it’s taking too long (8 games)? Sometimes I think we deserve the team we have.
November 5th, 2009 at 11:04 am
You’re right, Rick. Monday and Tuesday it seemed that we had a little hope around here (although certainly not optimism). But now it’s back to same stuff, different day.
However, I wouldn’t get too discouraged by some of Lerner’s answers. For example, he HAS to say that Mangini’s job is safe, even if it isn’t. Anything less just adds to the organizational mayhem. If he now believes that hiring Mangini was a mistake, he cannot say it. Just can’t do it.
I wish Grossi would have specifically asked Lerner to give Mangini the dreaded “vote of confidence.”
November 5th, 2009 at 11:08 am
What good is cap space if you’re going to have to way overpay players to come play for a disfunctional organization with a very unlikeable coach? And how many former Jets will be free agents anyway?
November 5th, 2009 at 11:10 am
Minority view: no biggie that he is e-mailing while he is still figuring out how to straighten out this cluster___. From the Kokinis perp walk with Merlotti, probably getting him away from the info on his computer, it’s clear that the Browns will claim something extracurricular triggered the dismissal. So Lerner doesn’t want to mention it in the press given that Kokinis will dispute a for-cause firing. Re Mangini’s status, c’mon, what else should he say without being blamed for every subsequent question posed being on the subject of when, not if, Mangini will be canned.
I didn’t need too hear from the Stouffers about their crappy ’60s teams, or from Stepien in the ’80s. No one minded Jacobs’s silence in the 90’s, and who didn’t want Modell to just shut up after a while. Gilbert had to learn to be quiet after his first year.
I want to root for a competent organization, not have my hand held by the owner while I suck my thumb. Now I’m from Kansas: figure out how to fix it, and just show me.
November 5th, 2009 at 11:11 am
Jim, Joe: It was on WKNR early this morning. Haven’t had time to search through the print.
November 5th, 2009 at 11:13 am
@7
Clippers are way bleaker than the Browns. At least we have a championship in our history. They’ve been the joke of the NBA for far longer than the Browns have been bottomfeeders of the NFL. They consistently manage to squander talent, and somehow have managed to land 1 franchise player in recent memory in the draft despite consistently high picks – and he just went out for 6 weeks.
Browns have had suspect ownership for 10 years. Clippers have had suspect ownership since the time they’ve been in L.A.
November 5th, 2009 at 11:22 am
Mike and EZ,
I definitely hear your Orioles, Royals, Padres. And there certainly is that comparison disparity based on the business structures. But I definitely think the Browns are more bleak than Golden State and the Clippers. I’m using semi-inconsistent methodology (and my emotional bias). You have to balance past v. future. Fact is, if you are 45 or younger, you haven’t seen a Cleveland Browns championship in your lifetime. Does ‘64 really matter that much anymore? Probs not.
The Clippers have promising talent – we’ll see what happens with Griffin. But they have the worst coach ever, a silly-pants front office, and attitude problems. Still, they will have the money for a max guy next summer. And, hey, it’s LA. They might draw someone. Baron, Eric Gordon, Max Guy, Griffin, Camby…not too shabby.
GS is super dysfunx, but again, young talent. And you need so few pieces to turn it around in the NBA.
The Browns are definitely in the bottom 5. That’s what is has come down to. And yeah, the Indians don’t deserve to be there (that was desapir).
November 5th, 2009 at 11:27 am
@ CRIBBAGE- I’m not upset that we’re so bad.. I, like you, expected us to be mediocre at best. I’m upset that Mangini gave Brady a very short leash. I’m upset that he’s sticking with Anderson when he’s putting up single digit QB ratings. I’m upset with the playcalling from Dabbol. I’m upset with his mentality that you can win football games with boyscouts. I’m upset that he get rid of two of our pro bowlers for… draft picks, not known talent, not known talent. Draft picks. We talkin about draft picks…
I was just channeling Allen Iverson there.
November 5th, 2009 at 11:37 am
@Jack
That’s where ownership comes in. Clippers are notorious for not wanting to spend money to compete. They don’t need to. They’re profitable for the owner even with a losing record. Read Simmons’ articles pre-draft, particularly the one pleading with Blake Griffin to not play for them because it will ruin his career. The Browns may have incompetent management and ownership, but at least the owner basically has an open checkbook. Clippers have all of our problems and then some, and have had them for longer than we have.
@29
This year’s in the crapper, yes, and a lot of the blame falls squarely on Mangini/Kokinis (and through them, Lerner). But Edwards was gone after this year and Winslow would have held out for a huge payday. Since Edwards has been in New York the Jets have recorded 1 win, and that was against the Raiders in a game where Edwards had 1 catch. Tampa is still winless despite Winslow being the highest paid player at his position in the NFL. We have problems, but these guys would not have solved them, and we would have lost them for nothing eventually. Sending them packing was NOT among Mangini’s mistakes.
November 5th, 2009 at 11:51 am
1. There’s no way an owner is going to come out at this point and say “Yeah, the coach might not be back.” That’s terrible and it means any semblance of Mangini getting something out of these players this season will be completely lost… no hope.
2. Mangini won’t be able to trade Joe Thomas for a 3rd rounder because he’s not the GM anymore. To me that’s the whole point of the Kokinis firing. Symbolic in stripping power away from Mangini, and hopefully realistic in getting an experienced GM type to lead this thing.
November 5th, 2009 at 11:54 am
@ Cribbage: It’s not THAT we’re bad, it is HOW we are bad that upsets people. I would think it should be patently obvious how poorly run we are right now even among the bad teams in the league (KC, STL, even Oakland).
November 5th, 2009 at 11:57 am
this place is bleeding like a stuffed pig
November 5th, 2009 at 11:58 am
Here’s some more random hate on the Brownies – http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/?p=6122
November 5th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
Haha, you’re right. Who knew Randy Lerner would be considered a better owner than anyone…
November 5th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
I’m a diehard Browns fan and I hate to say it but if Mangini comes back next season there’s a good chance that I won’t.
November 5th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Raiders are the worse hands down. Lerner is screwing up but he’s not crazy, creepy, and suffers from Alzheimer’s like Al Davis. Then again if I was a Raider fan I’d blame it all on the crazy, creepy, Alzheimer suffering owner….
Maybe Lerner has IBS or he’s dyslexic????
We need some sort of excuse!!!!
November 5th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
I for one welcome the Joe Namath trade…at least then there might be some entertainment value out of this team…we’d just need Suzy Kobler on the sidelines every game
November 5th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
I’m a Steelers fan who used to relish our ‘Rivalry’. It’s sad to me that the fans of your team, who used to be sharp minded football savvy individuals actually refused to see that the emperor has no clothes. Chanci Stucky for Braylon Edwards? A Pathological grab for anyone in a New York Jets uniform? …and now the Jets defense is great and yours is…? Your coach was only selected because he had the pedigree of the coach who won 4 Super Bowls after you ran him out of town. Same as Schottenheimer. Before Cowher won it all, a poll was done in Pittsburgh as to whether fans preferred yearly playoffs without a Super Bowl, or a one year sellout for the brass ring. 80% responded that we prefer a consistent winner. You had that and ran it out of town twice. Recognize a good thing when you have it. Firing Kokinis was like retaliating for Pearl Harbor by bombing Mexico.
November 5th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
Why do you think Mangini owes you a decision on who’s going to play quarterback? His job is to win ballgames, not to explain to fans how he’s going to win them.
November 6th, 2009 at 9:49 am
I’m with you Rick on the issue of Lerner’s refusal to either hold a press conference or to be interviewed PERSONALLY, so that follow- questions could be asked. But to criticize him for saying “no” when asked if he could visualize a scenario which would cause him to fire Mangini is, well, moronic. Think about it…if he gives any other answer, what happens next? No owner would have handled that question differently….well…maybe Al Davis….