Cavaliers Preview #32 – Cavaliers vs. Rockets
December 27, 2009Three in a Row!
December 28, 2009While We’re Waiting serves as the early morning gathering of WFNY-esque information for your viewing pleasure. Have something you think we should see? Send it to our tips email at tips@waitingfornextyear.com.
Club Tril goes Big Time: “”[Mark] Titus is smart enough that he was recruited to play basketball at Harvard and missed one question on the math section of the SAT. He is bizarre enough that he spent spring break of his senior year of high school attending WrestleMania XXII dressed up, with his best friend, Andy Keller, as the 1980s tag-team duo the Rockers. They also attended a live taping of Jerry Springer’s talk show. Those smarts and verve have helped make Titus one of the popular players in college basketball, a mind-boggling anomaly given that he is a little-used walk-on with a career high of 3 points.” [Pete Thamel/NY Times]
—
On Rob Ryan’s future in Cleveland… [No Logo Needed]
—
More on the potential trade of Big Z: “Center Zydrunas Ilgauskas has been with Cleveland since draft night in 1996, tying him with the Lakers’ Kobe Bryant for the longest ongoing tenure with one NBA team. He’s fought back from devastating foot injuries to twice make All-Star teams. He’s re-signed twice with the team. There’s no question Ilgauskas has been loyal to the Cavaliers. But will the Feb. 18 trade deadline pass with the Cavaliers being loyal to him?” [Chris Tomasson/NBA FanHouse]
—
Maybe things aren’t so bad after all: “Does Cleveland REALLY have a shot at an NBA Title? Can Shaq stay healthy and help us deep in the playoffs? Can Delonte come up big and get mentally right to be as productive as last year? Can Mo Williams keep making shots when we get to post season? Can the team make up ground and get the 1 0r 2 seed? Will Leon Powe be back and be useful off the bench? Will he even play? Will the Cavs make any trades to improve our shot at the Title? And most importantly, can we get some consistent play from the team as a whole?” [Lake Erie Soldiers]
—
And finally, did Mangini just save his job? “This is merely tea-leaves reading on my part, but a third consecutive win by the suddenly competent Browns just might have tipped the scales in favor of earning Eric Mangini a second season in Cleveland. I don’t see new Browns president Mike Holmgren lowering the boom on Mangini after an impressive December, especially after mentioning often in recent weeks how unfair it is to make anybody a one-and-done head coach. And don’t give me any of that it-was-only-Oakland business when it comes to Cleveland’s 23-9 win. Ask the Eagles, Bengals, Steelers or Broncos how much they wish they could have beaten Oakland.” [Don Banks/SI.com]
—
(image via ohiostatebuckyes.com)
15 Comments
You know, the whole Z predicament had me thinking last night. How often do we as fans curse athletes for leaving and not having any loyalty to the city they brought them up? Manny and C.C. come to mind for starters (Yes, C.C. was traded, but he was offered a contract by us and Milwaukee at some point).
My point is, now we’re at the crossroads with Z and it seems that the majority of Cavs fans want to trade him to try and get that piece for a championship. Doesn’t this make us a bit hypocritical in some way or another?
“Doesn’t this make us a bit hypocritical in some way or another?”
Fans always want it both ways, Chris. Odd thing is with Z is that he *wants* to be here – something that we don’t see very often across our other major teams. Makes it even more of a conundrum…
chris – yes it does. however, the lebron-factor throws everything out the window.
chances are, if Z gets traded he returns via a buyout and its a win-win for everyone involved. the reality is, Z is on his last legs and would provide very little value in terms of performance for most teams. he cant play an up and down game. he cant really play a post-game anymore. he doesnt give much defensively. he is a 7 foot 3 “jump” (really flat-footed) shooter who works on this cavs team for a variety of reasons, but wouldnt fit well with nearly any other team. the cavs arent making a trade with another legit contending team so that is moot (ie, Z might work for a team like orlando or boston as well but thats not a viable trade situation). if i am running a rebuilding team, like golden state, clippers or memphis, why would i want a guy like Z taking valuable playing time away from a young up-and-coming guy? he fits in cle, but no other team really has a use for him except as an expiring buy-out contract.
The Cavs aren’t going to trade Z unless there is an agreement in place to bring him back in 30 days. Having him and Shaq to matchup against Orlando and LA are crucial to the Cavs’ title chances.
Chris, I’ve never been part of the “trade Z” crowd, but my suspicion is that those clamoring for trades are active fantasy players. In fantasy sports, trades are easy, are all about stats, and don’t involve real people, egos, etc. In real basketball, on the other hand, a lot of the really important stuff doesn’t show up on a stat sheet (e.g. number of offensive fouls drawn by Andy).
As far as why Z shouldn’t be traded, it’s about more than loyalty. Some very specific things he gives you:
– The Twin Towers. I know that didn’t work well in the beginning of the season, but it’s shown some real success against teams that try and beat you with size (*ahem Lakers*).
– Stretching the floor with his outside shooting, which is extremely good for a 7-footer.
– A very viable option if the opposing team starts playing hack-a-Shaq. Z’s one of the better FT shooters on the Cavs.
– A guy who really knows the defensive schemes of the Cavs.
He’s not the Z of, say, 3 years ago, but he’s doing a lot of what the Cavs need him to do.
Dave-
I’ve honestly got to say that that is the first time that I’ve read that theory when it comes to trading Z. I can’t speak for everyone but I don’t play fantasy basketball and I can totally understand Cleveland and the organization’s loyalty to Z.
What some people that don’t want to trade Z need to understand that outside of the MLE and the draft the Cavs will not be able to make any personnel moves for the future unless they make trades. Shaq and Z coming off the books isn’t going to put this team in a position to add pieces for the future. So to say that those backing a Z trade are fantasy players and insensitive to the human element should not be so shortsighted.
Reason why a lot of people think that the Z trade needs to happen and is easy to accomplish:
A lot of people are stupid.
Denny-
Stupid to want to trade him with a pre-arranged buyout?
Clown, I’m not saying there aren’t some legitimate reasons for wanting to trade Z (particularly if we can get him back quickly), but just that I’ve seen folks talk about trades so casually that they don’t seem to notice that trades are not a simple thing.
Yes, it’s hard for the Cavs to make personnel changes. On the other hand, when you have a top-notch team, that’s not really a major problem. There’s only one exception to that, namely the center position, given that Shaq and Z are both looking like they’re near the end of their careers: what I can’t tell is whether the Cavs are expecting Andy to move over to center, or are going to do something dramatic again (e.g. trying to get Yao Ming from the Rockets).
Dave-
I see what you are saying and I’m totally with you. Like I said in #4 above, I don’t agree with or see the Cavs making any trade that doesn’t have Z returning after a buyout. I don’t think the Cavs would be as dangerous or as versatile without Z but if you have the chance to get him back after 30 days and add a some talent that will benefit long turn….you have to make that deal. Maybe I’m stupid but I don’t see the downside.
Denny,
Dumb comment. Anyone with a NBA IQ knows the situation the Cavs are in. Both with future acquisitions and competing this year. Trading Z or Shaq for a solid forward for THIS YEAR, and Wally’s Bird Rights / JJ for FUTURE YEARS are a must. If not, I hope Bron leaves, because this team would be worse than the Damon Jones days.
@ Laughable Infant: Not stupid if buy-out and return is pre-negotiated. But it’s a stretch to assume that 1) that’ll happen for sure and 2) it’s still going to be easy to put a trade together.
@ Natty – Nice blanket statement to respond to mine. I may not have an “NBA IQ”, as I assume blowhards like SAS are the only people with those. Other people who have them surely don’t claim that they have it in an attempt to sound smart on internet. Last I checked, the team is doing pretty damn well right now, and I’d think succeeding this year is pretty paramount to the team. Also, I made no claim about my comment being “smart” or “most highly IQ’ed”.
I’m not sure where I said it is definitely going to happen or that it would be easy…but it is definitely possible. It’s been done. It’s the ugly side of sports and personal feelings about Z aside, I think it would benefit the Cavs long term and for this year. I’ll drop it though because it seems to be a sensitive topic.
@ CB – you didn’t say that it would be easy, and I didn’t mean to imply that. I was talking more in general about the folks who think that trading Z is as simple as finding a team that is looking to pick up an expiring. Yes, it can be done, but finding something of real value is the issue, along with ensuring a buyout. With a buyout in place it most certainly would benefit the Cavs for this year – and if they could pick up a solid, young big for the future that would be great. Not too touchy of a topic, no worries.
Ferry has been pretty diligent in all his trades and has done a great job of stockpiling talent and depth on this roster. I think that it’s a given he would make a good trade for Z and I when I say I support that trade, Ferry’s competency is a given for me. I’d assume that others who back a trade feel the same way. It may not be easy, but a team looking to trade in order to dump salary happens at least once a year. Utah did it already.
I don’t think it is unlikely that the Cavs could find a suitor and if it didn’t better the Cavs and if it didn’t involve Z returning I wouldn’t expect and I would hope that Ferry wouldn’t pull the trigger. If you or others don’t agree with that then I respect your opinion because I know that the Cavs are playing well now and I know the that Z probably deserves better to be treated as trade bait after all he’s done for the Cavs. I see both sides of the argument and I would never say that those who don’t share my opinion are stupid. That’s weak.