Threat Level Purple and Gold: Chris Bosh’s Role In Crushing Cavalier Dreams
Written By: Andrew | Category: Cleveland Cavaliers | Comments: 94
What’s the biggest obstacle standing in the way of the Cleveland Cavaliers’ dreams of Championship glory? Is it the Boston Celtics? The Orlando Magic? The Charlotte Bobcats (no joke)? Perhaps the Los Angeles Lakers? What if it’s none of the above, but actually Chris Bosh? Well, ok, not “none of the above”, but one of the above with Chris Bosh plus the Lakers.
Ever since the NY Post suggested over the weekend that at some point before the trade deadline the Lakers would be offering Andrew Bynum to the Raptors for Chris Bosh the internet has been abuzz with talk about it. Of course, predictably, both the Lakers and the Raptors quickly denied this. Raptors President Bryan Colangelo was somewhat adamant that the Raptors will not trade Bosh period. Here’s the thing, though. In my lifetime I’ve seen plenty of sports transactions go down after they were initially denied by all involved parties. So you’ll have to excuse me if I’m not so easily convinced that the Raptors aren’t going to shop Bosh around.
As a Cavalier fan, the prospect of Bosh ending up in Los Angeles gives me chills to my core. Of course, many have said there’s no way this deal will happen because of Bynum’s status as a Base Year Compensation (BYC) player. Essentially what this means is that Bynum’s “trade value” will be only 50% of his actual salary until July 1st. His actually salary this year is $12,500,000 so his “trade value” is just $6,250,000. Keeping in mind that in the NBA the salaries of any trade have to match up, it’s quite clear that a Bynum for Bosh ($15,779,912) isn’t going to be even close to matching. So many pundits have suggested that a deal probably won’t happen until the offseason when the Raptors can pull of an even sign-and-trade.
Larry Coon, author of the NBA Salary Cap FAQ (or, as I call it, Andrew’s favorite NBA site on the internet), now writes for a blog in the NY Times called Off The Dribble, and he wrote Monday night that people perhaps shouldn’t be so quick to assume that a deal can’t be done just because of Bynum’s BYC status:
“Bynum’s base year status means he can’t be swapped straight-up for Bosh. Instead, the Lakers would have to add players to make the math work. That is probably a good thing from their perspective, since they would have to find a way to absorb Bosh’s higher salary (along with the additional luxury tax). They would likely want Sasha Vujacic to be included in any deal — which may not go over well with Colangelo because Vujacic is signed for 2010-11 at $5.5 million.”
Essentially, what he’s saying is that the BYC status means that not only would the Raptors be trading away their franchise player, but they would have to take on a ton of extra salary on top just to make the deal legal. So while Coon doesn’t think the Raptors would necessarily want Vujacic, he doesn’t say a deal can’t be done.
Looking at ESPN’s Trade Machine, there are several ways to make this work. Assuming that if the Raptors were to trade Bosh they would want to maintain the resulting financial freedom as much as possible, a deal involving Bosh to the Lakers for Andrew Bynum, Adam Morrison, and Jordan Farmar actually works. Because Morrison and Farmar both have qualifying offers not season, the Raptors could simply not offer them and let them become unrestricted free agents and go on their own way. This would allow them to keep Bynum without adding on the extra salary moving forward.
According to the Trade Machine, this trade would net the Lakers +8 wins over a season. That’s more than the Cavaliers could get from the projected Jamison (+7 wins) and West (+4 wins) trades. This deal would seemingly turn the Lakers into a super dynasty and give the Cavaliers little chance of being able to overcome the Lakers’ supremacy. Surely this would be a disheartening turn of events for the Cavaliers franchise.
If you look at the history of the NBA, it is littered with the remains of once great teams that never won a Championship because of some other unstoppable force. Even just in the post-Jordan (on the Bulls)-era we’ve seen the Phoenix Suns, Dallas Mavericks, Sacramento Kings, Portland Trail Blazers, and Indiana Pacers all fail to win Championships despite being great teams. All throughout Michael Jordan’s career he left great teams and great players by the wayside only to never win an NBA title. The most disheartening fate of any franchise is to be on that side of things, and to this point, that’s where the Cavaliers are.
A Bosh to LA trade would make any Cavalier Championship that much more difficult. Without even considering what that would mean for LeBron’s future (you would think a LeBron-Wade marriage might be the only way to stop the Lakers), this is just further proof that the Cavs need to be proactive and make a major trade to upgrade this team. No more sitting on your laurels and waiting everyone else out. Time is growing short and the best move the Cavaliers could make would be to cash in the chips they’ve been holding and make a statement. As dispiriting as it might seem to have to face a Fisher-Kobe-Artest-Bosh-Gasol lineup, the Cavaliers lineup of Mo-Parker-LeBron-Jamison-Shaq with a full bench of Varejao, Delonte, Moon, Powe, Jawad Williams and Ilgauskas just might be the team to do it.
Needless to say, all these trade rumors have me feeling antsy and uneasy. I’m eager for the Cavaliers to make their move before someone else swoops in on their trade options. I’d hate for the Cavs to have to try to beat the Kobe-Bosh-Gasol team without any additional help.
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Photo Source: (AP Photo/The Canadian Press, Chris Young)
Author: AndrewSchnitkey
Andrew Schnitkey is a founding editor of WaitingForNextYear. Though he has written about every Cleveland franchise over the years, his primary focus is the Cavaliers and NBA basketball in general.Andrew Schnitkey has written 522 articles for Waiting for Next Year.
Bosh/Bynum swap will NOT occur. The Lakers will not part ways with Bynum. This article is pointless.
I give up.
Well this ruined my day. Thanks in advance for the nightmares.
Maybe this has already been discussed, but could the Cavs swing a deal for Bosh?
If the Lakers get Bosh, Lebron stays in Cleveland this summer…..how is that crushing the Cavs? I would sacrifice this season if it meant Lebron stays
If Bosh is truly on the trading block, the Cavs should be going after him rather than Jamison or West. I know it’s not as easy as just saying “get it done” but if the Raptors are looking for cap relief the Cavs have that, plus some young players if Toronto would find that attractive.
Or they could just wait until next year when the “China Pact” goes into affect and Bosh and Wade come to Cleveland for less money to play with the King.
What? It could happen!
Bosh to the Lakers = the sky is falling
if it happens, look for other signs of the end
and tell your family that you love them
Good point. If I were Danny Ferry I would send Bryan Colangelo a copy of Jacob’s post from earlier today about how great Andy is and then offer them Andy, Boobie, and Parker for Bosh. Hopefully they believe Andy is better than Bynum.
The Cavs do not have enough to get Bosh. What young player are they giving up? Mo Williams? No. Toronto doesn’t need another gunner. J.J. Hickson? He might be good eventually, but he’s way too raw and, honestly, doesn’t strike me as a guy who’s going to develop into a strong rebounder.
Name me another young player on this roster the Cavs could give up to entice Toronto to trade Bosh to Cleveland. And cap relief isn’t going to get it done, either. If they’re trading him because he doesn’t want to stay, what makes you think another big name (a legit star, not an overpaid Hedo Turkoglu type) would want to sign in Toronto?
I wouldnt give up parker. Hes the only tall guard we have
This isn’t just about this year. Its the fact no free agent has wanted to sign in Cleveland in the past few years. Its the bad contract of Larry Hughes that cost them the finals in 07. A different player, or maybe, one who actually played, that could have been our year. Its the non trades of last year with Wally and Snow. There is something every year that sets the team back, which has the best player on the planet.
If the Lakers get Bosh, you are looking at an all star team in every position, with the only question mark being Fisher.
If Lebron has to pair up with Wade to be the East’s force in the game, then that is the end of Basketball as we know it. The NBA has to put forth every effort to make sure these top flight players stay on their respective teams. They need to make sure that New York creates their team the way we did, through drafting a franchise player, and trading and singing role players around that guy.
My friends it seems as though the NBA is turning into the MLB. There will be Chicago, NY, LA, Boston……then everyone else. Thanks that we still have the salary cap, for what its worth.
“If Bosh is truly on the trading block, the Cavs should be going after him rather than Jamison or West.”
This is how the Paxson era still haunts us. While the Lakers were adding Bynums, we were trading our draft picks for Jiri Welchs. Ferry’s been forced to use the free agent market and its strapped the Cavs with MLE additions for the last hanful of years.
Unless the Raps want cap relief, we’re not getting Bosh. And no, JJ Hickson is not going to get it done.
If Bynum was traded for Bosh, it’d actually give the Cavs a better chance to win a championship. They’d be losing some size and they wouldn’t have a big center anymore. At that point, we’d kill them in the post with Shaq (I think this move was proposed more because of Gasol’s injury, which have caused the Lakers to struggle…don’t count on it happening).
I forgot to mention Andy as a young player they could give up. And you don’t trade a guy like Chris Bosh for an energy player (albeit a fantastic one).
bill-legarm
“If they’re trading him because he doesn’t want to stay, what makes you think another big name (a legit star, not an overpaid Hedo Turkoglu type) would want to sign in Toronto?”
Do you mean a big name in free agency, in addition to the traded folks?
When I initially clicked on this post, my computer seized up and I had to restart it.
That said, I’ve never been all that impressed with Bosh. In the limited amount of times I’ve seen him play against the Cavaliers, he’s never stood out all of that much. What am I missing? Is Bosh over-hyped?
@ Matt#2
Didn’t word it very well. I was making a point that cap relief wasn’t going to be enough, the thinking there being Bosh isn’t resigning, so let’s get cap relief and sign one of the big names this summer. I don’t see any big name free agents signing in Toronto, especially sans Bosh.
Point being, Toronto’s going to want legitimate, young, potential All-Stars, and the Cavs just don’t have any players that fit that mold.
@ #11 -
I would suspect that LeBron holding the future of this franchise hostage hasn’t exactly made signing FAs any easier.
Let’s face it, no big-time is coming to Cleveland unless they’re convinced they have a shot at a championship…and I’m sure any prospective FA has a hard time envisioning how he wins a ring in Cleveland without the King.
I think Chris Bosh is a bit overrated as a solo artist. But put him in a great band with a great front man, where Bosh can be free to do his own thing a bit more in the background, and suddenly you have something magical.
Trade Z, Boobie, and JJ for Bosh and then the raptors can buy out Z’s contract.
Works in the trade machine!
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yhxrztq
Teams are dying to get cap relief. In case you haven’t noticed, the economy isn’t going so good right now:
http://www.insidehoops.com/business.shtml
There will be far more sellers than buyers this year:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/091223&sportCat=nba
I’m not saying it’s possible, I’m just saying that if Bosh comes available, see what you can swing. These aren’t normal times and I don’t see how this equates to Jiri Welchs.
Who knows, the Cavs may be able to swing a one-sided deal. Where’s the harm in asking?
And I’d be curious to see a list of the free agents who supposedly didn’t want to sign with Cleveland.
Titus, many of them…like Artest, Ariza, Villanueva, etc. C’mon. But the Lakers have no money. This isn’t happening. Have you seen their payroll? Please.
I actually to a degree understand what nobody @ 13 is saying. If bynum is gone, that leave Gasol to go against shaq, and Bosh to go against AV/Powe in a finals matchup. Granted thats this year, when the Lakers resigned Bosh next year it’d be a nightmare, but this year at least we wouldn’t have to rely on the two towers line up to counter the lakers. I don’t think the raptors trade bosh at the deadline though, it basically signals to all season ticket holders they’re just giving up. If they do trade him, I think it’s more likely its a sign and trade when Bosh tells them he’s not coming back, but still wants max contract.
I’m OK with the Bosh-Bynum trade. If Bosh goes to LA, odds are he resigns there. Why leave? He can get the max deal, live in sunny LA and play with Bryant, Gasol, Odom and Artest (better than any supporting cast he’d find in FA). (Anyone else listen to the Ford-Simmons podcast today?).
Bosh to L.A. definitely hurts the Cavaliers’ 2010 title chances but I think it helps them keep LeBron. I really, really don’t see LeBron and Wade teaming up, especially in Miami (Wade’s turf). LeBron and Bosh makes much more sense.
I’m curious why people think the Raptors will trade Bosh solely for cap relief. If they lose Bosh, that is automatically cap relief. He has an expiring contract. Now tell me why they would trade that for an expiring? Especially whoever said we trade Z so they can buy out Z.
The Raptors will want talent for Bosh, not expiring contracts.
“I think Chris Bosh is a bit overrated as a solo artist.”
Phil Collins agrees.
Apocalypse Now! For one thing, if Bosh goes to LA they lose all the interior defense that Bynum provided. Also, Gasol and Bosh essentially play the same perimeter game; so why make this trade if you’re LA? The type of player Bynum is, even with the injuries, is rare in the NBA and I cannot see any way that the Lakers mortgage that for possibly 5 months of Bosh (he could very well walk after the season).
Artest wanted to go to LA because he thinks he’s a record producer.
Ariza went to Houston because they told him he could shoot as much as he liked. He wouldn’t be the top guy in Cleveland which he cares about more than winning or else he would have stayed in LA.
Villanueva went to whomever would give him the most money, per his agent’s need for a big payday.
How does that reflect poorly on Cleveland?
going with titus’s question, id like to see a list of free agents who didnt want to sign with cleveland yet could have gotten more money with cleveland. at the end of the day, money talks and players sign where they can get the most money. ill buy into a guy signing with miami over Cleveland when the money is about the same. but not when cleveland offers more cash than Team X.
Artest – more money and years from LA.
Ariza – more money and “guaranteed” starting job which means better chance for more money in contract 2 down the road.
Villanueva – WAY more money than cleveland could offer.
From a Talent perspective the Lakers would be off the charts. They’d have 3 of the top 10-12 players in the NBA on the same team which is unheard of. However, it definitely hurts their interior defense. Bynum is a pretty dominant defensive center and he has his nights where he has it going from the field too.
Also, if this deal is done then it essentially means that Gasol is not 100%. So if you’re the Cavs, do you mind seeing Bosh for Bynum AND a banged up Gasol? Suddenly doesn’t seem so scary.
This article is pretty premature, if you ask me…Bryan Colangelo has repeatedly said that they will NOT trade Bosh unless he says he isn’t coming back…now, obviously take that with a grain of salt, but as EZ said, Bosh himself IS an expiring contract, and since salaries have to nearly match for a trade, they’re not trading an expiring contract for expiring contracts…we don’t have enough juice to pull off a bosh deal, Colangelo would do a trade for nothing less than a future all-star…now, in bynum, the lakers do have a future all-star…his numbers in the triangle as a third option aren’t terribly gaudy, but just imagine if he was a number on option… (as a number 2, with Pau out, he has been an absolute terror)…that being said, I don’t see the Lakers moving Bynum for Bosh…even though Bosh would likely sign a contract with the lakers after this year, the lakers love bynum’s size and ridiculous upside..furthermore, there is something to be said for reaping the rewards of a player you have “raised,” so to speak…an example of this is some fan’s willingness to trade JJ…JJ’s raw athletic talent point to him being somewhat of a force down the road in 2 or 3 years…his talents are tantalizing enough for some (for the record, i’m not in this group) to not want to move him…and he hasn’t done anything yet!…now, say we keep JJ, and in 2 years he is throwing up 18 and 10 a night and getting lots of buzz…we’d be even less likely to move him then, since we saw him through the rough patches, we watched him blossom, and now we are reaping the rewards…now, compare that to the lakers..they drafted bynum out of high school, gave him meaningful minutes, watched him react to trade rumors and Kobe’s outbursts, and now are only beginning to reap the rewards…why would they trade him now, even for a talent like bosh?…this is not to discount bosh (or even compare JJ to bynum, which is ridiculous), but i think there is something to be said for a team raising up a “project” so to speak and then reaping the rewards, rather than trading him when he is on the cusp of stardom…
re. bosh, the fact is players (and agents) dont leave guaranteed money on the table. it just doesnt happen. why should bosh leave toronto for less money when he could (a) get his max deal with toronto and then get traded a year or two later (like ray allen did to get to boston), or (b) go with a sign and trade in the off-season to get his max contract. simply leaving via free agency means less money. ive heard the argument that its only 1 year difference (5 yrs. vs. 6 yrs) and a guy can make up that difference by signing his next “big” contract in year 6 – one year before he could sign contract 2 had he gone with the max deal in the first place. nothing is guaranteed and players get hurt. just ask michael redd if he is glad he took the max money a few years ago rather than taking less with cleveland.
Toronto doesn’t have to trade Bosh this season to get something for him. Don’t forget about Toronto’s ability to sign and trade Bosh this off season. Toronto has been playing better as of late and is only a half game out of the 5th spot in the east. Unless they recieve an offer that blows them away (any combination of Bynam, Morrison, Vujacic, and Farmer will not blow anyone away) Bosh will finish his season in Toronto.
also…the claim that players won’t come to cleveland in the offseason is bull…sure, players may go elsewhere for more years or more money, but LeBron is enough to overcome any qualms about living here…exhibit a is 7 ft 1, 340 lbs and wears number 33…also, look at the solid yet less talked-about FAs we’ve signed…from parker and moon to even guys like Donyell Marshall and Larry Hughes (who were highly regarded FAs at the time)
Matt, sometimes you have to give up something to get something. And I’d rather give up potential talent (Hickson) for proven talent (Bosh) if the situation comes up. Think back to Kevin Johnson for Larry Nance.
But, as you said, this is all speculation. Colangelo used to work for the Suns, maybe he still hates the Lakers and doesn’t feel the need to help them the way Jerry West did with the Gasol trade or Kevin McHale did for the Celtics with the Garnett trade.
@Titus: I agree with you, and I would trade JJ in a second for Bosh, Jefferson, Jamison, etc…my point wasn’t that I wouldn’t trade potential for right-now-talent..because i would…my point was that there is something to be said for not wanting to trade REALIZED potential…i.e. bynum for bosh…it is sort of an emotional/psychological argument…i think you misunderstood…
Check out Bosh’s teeth: at least he thinks he’s headed to L.A.
Cmon LA, you have so many titles and we have so few. Please, just give us this one chance while we still have LBJ. Once he leaves, we will go back to our rightful spot as a perienniel loser with our other two franchises…
But remember what Andy once did to Bosh… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkmyUP3XLXA
I like how people think Andrew Bynum gives the Lakers all of this interior defense. He has the size and potential to be a great defensive player, but he isn’t there yet, mainly because his knee injuries have hurt his movement. Last year in the Finals, Bynum did play on Howard some, but Gasol was on him for most of the game and did a good job. Adding Bosh to LA also makes them the best offensive team in the NBA by far, so their defense wouldn’t have to be even top 5. And while Bynum does have great potential, Bosh is already there. He is young, and one of the top PFs in the game. Bynum probably will never be better than what Bosh is right now
JJ is nice and all, but we don’t have near the pieces to make a trade for Bosh. Bynum would be a good fit for the Raptors because he would allow Bargnani to switch to the 4, where he is actually a good player, and would take the burden off of him to guard the bigger Cs and PFs in the league. Bynum is still young and has shown loads of promise, although I’m sure his knee injuries are troubling to the Raptors. It does make sense that a trade like this would be more likely to happen in the offseason
Toronto has ZERO incentive to move Bosh for straight up expiring contracts, because Bosh is an expiring himself. Plus, the Raptors are somewhat competitive and should make the playoffs. I can’t see Bosh going anywhere unless the Raps are bowled over with a huge ransom of draft picks, cheap young talent, and then maybe even some cap relief beyond Bosh’s deal. Bynum and the Lakers garbage probably won’t get it done, and JJ and our garbage won’t get it done. Look at it this way…god forbid it happened, but let’s say LeBron announced today that he was 100% set on leaving after this year. The Cavs would still be insane to trade him for anything short of a godfather deal, because in the offseason he is either a gigantic expiring contract OR we can get in on a sign-and-trade.
@Ricky…but LA management is absolutely infatuate with Bynum, and partially because of reasons I laid out in my post, they won’t trade him…Bosh is a great player, but if, for some odd reason, the trade does happen, he will not be able to pick up the triangle offense and be an effective second wheel right away…
“According to the Trade Machine, this trade would net the Lakers +8 wins over a season. That’s more than the Cavaliers could get from the projected Jamison (+7 wins) and West (+4 wins) trades.”
I honestly don’t think that the Trade Machine scientifically measures the marginal benefit in the trades it analyzes. There is no way that the Lakers (currently 29-9, projected to win 62.5 games) instantly become a 70-win team because of this trade.
LA has one of the best front courts in the NBA, right now. Bynum’s size is a huge advantage for their team, and if I were in charge of their organization, there seems to be no reason to want to change what is clearly working with their big men.
The Lakers however, have consistently had some awful point guard units. As clutch as Derek Fisher may be, the combination of him with Jordan Farmar is sub-par, to say the least. If the Lakers really wanted to immediately become the favorites for the next half dozen years, there would be much more marginal value towards going after a point guard than swapping relatively similar big men.
That is a good point Matt, about Bosh picking up the triangle. Gasol picked it up right away, but his skill set matches that offense more than Bosh because of how good of a passer Gasol is. I do think they would trade him though, if the total package for Bosh was right.
@Jacob..i agree wholeheartedly about the trade machine…the “win predictor” is simply an algorithm that i believe factors in PER and perhaps other stats, but it isn’t really a true assessment…and while I don’t think that Bosh and Bynum are similar, i also agree that they would be much better improved by going after a point guard, since fisher might be the worst starter in the league and the worst starting defensive PG
@everyone: one thing that hasn’t been noted is that this rumor was started by PETER FREAKIN VECSEY…i don’t know if there is any rumor writer that has less credibility and starts more bull rumors than Vecsey
I have a tough time believing that the Raptors can get *more* than Bynum in exchange for Bosh. While I don’t want to see this trade happen, I have a tough time thinking of a team that would offer more for Bosh than Bynum.
I think this has a surprisingly high likelihood of happening.
I can’t believe the Flakers can add a Chris Bosh but unlike the Cavaliers who seem unable to do something to get over the hump I wouldn’t count out LA. Ferry needs to do something.
Matt – we got Shaq in a trade.
What big name free agent has signed with Cleveland?
mike, Artest didn’t get more money or more years. Neither did Ariza. They passed up identical contracts to play for other teams. Ray Allen and Michael Redd also passed on signing here once upon a time.
You forget, we HAVE NO MONEY. So, it’s sort of an important trend to note when guys are signing elsewhere for identical money.
And my stomach just turned…thanks Andrew.
Larry Hughes and Donyell Marshall are the only ones that I can think of that comes to mind, but the point is more that in the NBA, money plays a much bigger part than anything else in signing free agents, and in the past the cavs simply haven’t been buyers…other than that off season, we haven’t had enough cap room…we were buyers when we got hughes, he was the number 3 guard available behind joe johnson and michael redd, both of whom signed for more money than the cavs could offer…other than ron artest, who had apparently always wanted to play with the lakers, i can’t really think of a free agent that went anywhere besides money or maybe the chance to play with a great player…off the top of my head, most FAs signed in the last few years were simply bowled over with huge contracts…look at Hedo fleeing to Toronto, etc…the point is, the reason big free agents haven’t come to cleveland in the past is either because we weren’t buyers/we didn’t want them or we didn’t have the money…this is the case with nearly all free agents…furthermore, I’m rather glad that the Cavs haven’t signed many free agents, since most turn out to be huge wastes of money…the NBA is a league where the good teams succeed in the draft and trades, and the bad teams sign players to bad contracts in free agency…look at the best players on the best teams in the league…Lakers: bryant (draft), Gasol (trade), bynum (draft)…Cavs: James (draft), Mo (trade), Z, (draft), Andy (draft)…Magic: Howard (draft), Lewis (FA, but ridiculously overpaid), Nelson (draft), carter (trade)…Celtics: Garnett (trade), Pierce (draft), Allen (trade), Perk and Rondo (draft)…Spurs: Duncan, Parker, Ginobili (draft)…to summarize, the cavs haven’t signed free agents because we either havent wanted them or they cost too much…and this is a good thing because most free agents turn out to be wastes of money and good teams are built through the draft and trades…
FUDGE MY LIFE.
Matt,
We got Andy in the Gooden trade from Orlando (for Tony battie and two 2nd rounders)
http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/gooden_trade_040723.html
true…but still, acquired in a trade, not free agency…plus it was very early on in his career when he hadn’t yet played in the league, so it was almost the same as drafting him
@Matt. Good call, it’s Peter FREAKING Vecsey. Don’t get yourself worked up over a fake deal he made up.
@Jack. Artest signed with the Lakers for FIVE years. There’s no way in hell the Cavs offered him that many years (and, therefor, that much money).
With regards to Ariza, yes, he turned down practically the same contract to sign with Houston.
@ matt – “This is AN INSTANCE OF PROFESSIONAL SPORTING ECONOMICS, money plays a much bigger part than anything else in signing free agents”
fixed.
Any chance we can get Dajuan Blair? He just posted 27 pts, 21 boards in 29 minutes going into overtime…
On Bill Simmons’ BS Report, Chad Ford intimates that he is fairly certain the Bosh-Bynum trade is going to happen.
1 think you guys don`t realize Toronto can Offer Bosh $30mil more then any other team! They are on a 8-3 run as of late, and Jamesion has stated he`d love to play for Toronto not to mention talks of Ben Gordon for `Calderon have been floating around. Don`t count the Raps out just yet, plus Cavs got no chance against a healthy Boston!! Shaq is washed up and cant run with the likes of Toronto, Atlanta, Orlando or Boston and will be spending more time on the bench then on the court come playoffs!!
Also why wood Toronto want Parker, they let him go cause they didnt think he fit into their plans and then theres Moon too another no fit, looks like Clevland was following Toronto and hoped their castways may work for them….hahaha – too funny!!
@ ben the cavs gave artest the best offer they could afford with their mid-level exception which was 5 years, approx. 32 mill
@EZ he SHOULD be on the cavs right now (wassup eyenga?) but there’s no chance. SA wouldnt give him up for hickson, jawad, powe, or darnell jackson (the players whose contracts match up) damn though, imagine the depth if blair was on the roster with shaq, Z, Varajao!, hickson, and powe. MB’s head would explode.
This trade is not going to happen. Some writer literally thought this up. There is no word or rumor and the Post should be ashamed of itself for such poor reporting.
Whipjacka – you’re way off. Listen to the first ten minutes of Bill Simmons’ podcast.
PG: Kobe
SG: Artest
SF: Odom
PF: Gasol
C: Bosh
That is just ridiculous. 3 7-footers and 2 guys who are bigger and stronger than just about anyone else at their position in the guard spots. Plus, everyone has speed as well.
And the sad part is….unless Toronto really just wants cap relief, Bynum + Farmar is better than anything we can offer. Hopefully, Toronto is really worried about Bynum’s injury history (him getting injured soon certainly would help us here).
After the post on DWest adn this I figured I try something else out eveyone. Here’s the three assumptions I made. If the Hornets are willing to trade DWest, CP3 will be ticked. The Hornets want to cut salary. The Raptors will want something significant for Bosh.
So here’s the fantasy:
Hornets Give: CP3, DWest, Okafor
Get: Mo Williams, Shaq, O’Bryant
Raptors Give: Bosh, O’Bryant
Get: DWest, Okafor
Cavs Give: Mo Williams, Shaq
Get: Bosh, CP3
Just Dreamin’
Sorry I didn’t realize that Bill Simmons was the GM of the Raptors. Oh wait he’s not. He’s just another reporter with an overinflated sense of his own opinion…that’s based on some subtle ethnocentric prejudices against Canada.
There is no way we trade Bosh. Some of you think he’s overated? Why does he have more double doubles than anybody in the game today. Why is he the highest scoring PF in the Game today?
I love that comment by the guy who’s seen him only when they played the Cavs…and he wasn’t that impressed. Shut up unless you have information that backs up an opinion, okay?
Bosh has stated how much he loves Toronto. He laughed at NY. He’s stated that he wants to be the go to guy, not the third option on a team (there goes LA). And really the injury prone Bynum? There is zero proof that if he was the go to guy on a team that he would be good. Sure when everybody is trying to double Gasol and Kobe he’s just awesome. So what. Bosh added almost thirty pounds in the off season, weighing in now at 255. He’s almost as strong as Bynum, twice as fast and exponentially more skilled.
With some other trash that Lakers want to throw in? Vujacic? When was the last time his shot saw the bottom of the basket? And Morrison? Please…I know this is the Stupid season(trade deadline) but don’t drink the koolaid from the people who are just trying to get you to hit their websites so that they can sell advertising.
Nobody who hopes to keep their job would give up the franchise player for this crew.
And if the Raps can continue their momentum and land fifth or sixth in the east, make a little noise in the playoffs…Bosh stays. If not? Than a sign and trade will be set up by one of the craftiest GM’s in the league. Either way, it’s all good and you Cav’s fans have nothing to worry about with this.
REALITY CHECK TIME!!!
I love all the Cavs fans who think that the Lakers are the only obstacle keeping Cleveland from winning championships. How many finals trips have the Cavs made in the LeBron era? That’s right…ONE!
Don’t let regular season records fool you. At some point, Cleveland will need to knock of Orlando and/or Boston to reach the finals…hardly an easy task. Cavs have their plates full already (with or without a Bosh trade to LA).
@GMan
You make a lot of good points, but you are underrating Bynum and you may be overrating your boy Bosh here a bit:
Bosh is a great offensive player. He can score facing his basket and with his back to the basket, he has solid range, and he’s a great FT shooter. But he is God-awful defensively. His defensive ratings the past few years have been terrible, and this year, which is statistically his best offensive season ever: he is the centerpiece of the worst defensive team of the decade. The Raptors are allowing 113.1 pp100 possessions, a number that is worst in the league by 3 points, and is legendarily awful. Without a true center (Bargs doesn’t count), Bosh has often had to guard the other team’s post player: in years past they were able to hide Bosh defensively and put some other schmuck at defensive center (Nesterovich, et al) but this year Bosh’s defensive “capabilities” have been thrown front and center. He has never put up great counting defensive statistics either, as his shot blocking and steals numbers are nothing to write home about. Furthermore, Bosh has proven that he cannot be the best player on a championship team. Now, this isn’t a terrible thing: only a few players can stake claim to that title right now: LeBron, CP3, Wade, Kobe, Duncan, Dirk, D. Howard (maybe). But not Bosh. The proof for this is his career: unlike the rest of the players on that list, many of whom have had just as little help as Bosh, if not less, Bosh hasn’t sniffed an NBA Finals (likely because of his defense). Furthermore, the digs at Bynum are unprovoked: he has suffered freak injuries but they are not the type that are nagging and make him more injury prone. He has put up filthy numbers as the second fiddle behind Kobe with Pau out, and all indications point to him being a great defensive player down the road (he isn’t there yet, but is already better than Bosh). This rumor may be BS, but you would be wise not to dismiss proposals for Bosh so easily down the road…
Gman – most obnoxious post I’ve ever seen anywhere on the internet.
Blanks – Wake up. ORL sucks and Boston will hobble into the playoffs.
Gman – you are right about Colang though. Love him as a GM. Thanks to him throwing way way way way way too much money at Hedo, now the Cavs don’t have to worry about the Magic like they used to. Love me some Vinsanity at sub-40% shooting.
Oh, and Gman, Bosh is gonzo.
@ Jack
Bosh ain’t going nowhere. Wade ain’t going nowhere either. But I could see LeBron walking. I mean, why would anyone wanna live in Cleveland??? LOLLLL!
Great analysis with your “ORL sucks” comment, by the way. Very insightful.
And regarding Boston, KG is a little banged up right now, but the playoffs are still 3 months away! Shaq and Big Z, on the other hand, have each been “hobbling” for the past 10 years!
Let’s see some of the teams the Cavs have lost to this season (Toronto, Chicago, Washington, Charlotte twice). Yeah, you’re right Jack, a trip to the finals is a virtual guarantee for Cleveland, LOL!
Cleveland is a one-trick pony…employing two Raptors cast-aways, I might add, LOL!
I agree with ‘Blanks’ on this one…the notion that the Lakers are the only team standing in the way of a Cleveland championship is pure folly.
Perhaps Cavs fans should instead figure out what to do with Shaq come playoff time (i.e. playing in slow motion, bricking free throws, causing hazards on the court with puddles of sweat dripping from his grotesquely large melon, etc.) before worrying about what other teams are doing.
Or better yet, maybe hire Tonya Harding’s husband to chase down Garnett. Otherwise, a healthy big 3 means a second round loss for Cleveland…and bye-bye Bron-Bron.
I must be the luckiest GM in the league! Not only did I land a job with the greatest player in a generation, I’m managed to avoid getting fired by bringing in complete stiffs (Joe Smith, Wally Szcerbiak, Ben Wallace, Leon Powe, Jamario Moon, etc.) to supposedly “help” my star player. I’m lucky the fans haven’t killed me yet. I was a brutal player, and now I’m an even worse GM. I think it’s time I take down my Isiah Thomas posters from my bedroom. Or maybe I should break up the team and bring back Andre Miller, Ricky Davis and Carlos Boozer. Now there was a team I could be proud of. My apology in advance for causing LeBron to dawn a Knickerbocker uniform in 2010. I gave him a few phone numbers of places he could “score” off the court.
@Blanks
You tell me who is more likely to stay: LeBron, who has been to an NBA finals with the Cavs, grew up in Akron, is managed by his best friends from Akron, just made a movie about his love for his friends from Akron…or Chris Bosh, who hasn’t sniffed a Finals with the Raps, who is on a terrible defensive team that doesn’t complement his abilities (i.e. no defensive post presence to hide his lack of defensive skills), and who just locked up a lot of their money in Hedo Turkoglu, about whose age no one is certain.
I agree that the Lakers aren’t our only obstacle to the Finals, but the Celtics still aren’t as scary to me as the Magic. Garnett and Pierce both have nagging injuries, Ray Allen’s shooting has been awful, they have no bench depth at all (Brian Scalabrine getting minutes is laughable), and Rajon Rondo is being run ragged before the playoffs shouldering the suddenly heavy scoring burden. When three of your four best players are swiftly exiting their primes like in Boston, then you have a problem. And I’d be more focused on the Cavs’ wins this season (LA, Dallas, Miami, Orlando) than their losses, since EVERY team has lost to bad teams. And yeah, the Cavs employ two Raptors cast-offs: Anthony Parker, our number 5 or 6 option who is top 3 in 3PT%, and Jamario Moon, a solid bench defender and athlete who spells the best player alive in LeBron James. Try some analysis that’s cogent and stats-based…LOL!
@Blanks
Shaq has been everything we expected: he is a 37-year-old center who is past his prime, yes, but he gets the opposing bigs in foul trouble, is a presence defensively in the paint, and has been stellar against the teams that gave us trouble last year (ORL and LAL).
And easy with the Ferry remarks: what about his Mo Williams coup, or getting Shaq for a box of donuts, or the extremely solid signings of AP and Jamario, or the Leon Powe signing, or the Varejao extension that is looking better by the day, or the Z extension that is getting better by the day, or the Delonte acquisition, or…should I continue? Quit being such a schmo-hawk and make some real points.
@Matt
You do realize that the only reason any of those acquisitions panned out is because they play with LeBron, right? He’s the type of player who would make perpetual losers like Rafer Alston look good.
And c’mon man…Parker’s high 3PT% is a direct result of the open looks he gets as a result of playing with…yup, you guessed it, LEBRON! Stats are worthless if they’re taken out of context. A great man once said, “Stats can be used to prove that en elephant can hang off a cliff, with its tail tied to a posey…but common sense says otherwise.”
My point being (again) is that the Cavs are a one-man show. You take away LeBron, and the Cavs fall into the realm of complete nothingness. You take away any other team’s best player, and the drop off wouldn’t nearly be as dramatic. Cleveland is one rolled ankle away from disaster. You’re right though, if LeBron went down, I’m sure Varejao would fill in admirably in Brown’s ingenious offensive system (i.e. giving LeBron the ball, and everyone else getting out of the way).
Blanks, I hate getting personal. But you’re a moron. Where are you even from?
Here is your insightful analysis re: how weak Orlando is:
Orlando recently suffered a four-game losing streak to Chicago, Indiana, Toronto, and Washington. The Cavs have no such losing streak on the season.
Their leading scorer is shooting a blistering 39% from the field.
They rank only 8th in offensive efficiency. Behind those offensively-challenged Cavaliers with only one player in Brown’s “ingenious” offense.
Their only decent wing player is hurt.
Their PG is dreadfully under-achieving.
They lose rebound battles constantly despite having the best rebounder in basketball.
7 of their losses have come against premier teams. Why? They can’t beat good teams, because they rely exclusively on 3 pt shooting.
Dwight Howard has no post game (78% of his FGs come from dunks). He can’t dunk over Shaq.
The Cavs are 18-5 against teams over .500. Two of those losses were to the Dirk-less Mavs and Melo-less Nuggets. They just don’t get up for crap teams.
But they managed to crush ORL, PHX, and LAL on the road? Remember?
Two losses to the Bobcats? Hm, sounds familiar. Oh, that’s right, the Lakers lost two to the Bobcats last year. Look how that turned out.
The Cavs already know what to do with Shaq come playoff time. Put him between Sir Dunks-a-lot and the rim and watch the Magic offense fall to shambles while VC tries to take LeBron one-on-one. Giggles.
It’s “Don,” not “dawn.” Unless you were talking about the sunrise.
Other notes: Bosh is a lock to leave. You talk about bad GMs. Did you SEE the Hedo contract? And Jose Calderon, he’s a winner.
Don’t look now, but the Cavs have the best record in the league despite all their sucking, all their new pieces, all their inability to squash all those terrible teams you mentioned, with their inept coach and one-man show, and despite having the MOST DIFFICULT SCHEDULE OF ANY TEAM IN THE TOP 6 in the standings.
When was the last time the big 3 was healthy, by the way? Celtics have been eerily mum about KG’s knee. Hm, evokes memories of last year. The Celtics aren’t scaring anyone.
I don’t think a finals appearance is “guaranteed.” But I think the Cavs are the team to beat. Especially if they swing a trade here. But you can keep thinking it’s last year.
/pwned
@Matt, You seem like an intelligent guy but please stop generalizing the raptors like many other Americans do. Since Mid-December the raptors have held Opponents to 43% fg percentage, mainly do to the emergence of Andrea Bargnani’s defense (he shut down Duncan and Howard on Back to back nights) and the wings for the raptors somewhat (finally) slowing down penetration. Still the Raptors are far from being the best defensive team in the league but we’re not the worst either. On to Chris Bosh, personally I don’t see Bosh getting traded during the season, unless a team overpays for him. Again Personaly I see Bosh leaving being a 50/50 chance. Still if he does want to part ways with the Raps, it will most likely be a sign and trade (so both the Raps and Chris maximize their options). And to all the Cavs think you can give the Raptors AV, parker, and Big Z (or west) for Bosh are crazy, this is not the Rob Babcock era, the raps will not get ripped off again (see Carter trade). Who ever gets Bosh (assuming he leaves) will get a hell of player who has quickness, a great mid-range game, a decent defender (not great probably worse than Bargnani at one-on-one defense), great rebounder, and class act (Their would be no boos for Bosh). And please don’t reference Bill Simmons while talking about the Raptors, I have probably watched more WNBA games than Simmons watches Raptors games. One last thing for all the bad trade out there for Bosh (The Thomas and Hinrich one makes me cringe), the Bynum is easily the best trade I have heard for Bosh. Just Bynums length would help improve the Raps post-defence and with his array of post moves he would be a great combo with Bargs.
@Toney Starks
I don’t think I am generalizing the Raptors: they really are that bad. Like I said, statistically they give up the most points per 100 possessions in the league at 113 per game: that is awful. That is far and away the worst in the league. Bosh and Bargs individually have defensive ratings of 110 and 113, which means individually they project to giving up 110 and 113 points per 100 possessions, respectively: that is also pretty bad. Don’t try to make this an American/Canadian issue: that’s pretty cheap. I watch a heck of a lot of basketball, and have watched the Raptors a fair amount because offensively they are very entertaining, but they can’t stop anyone. You throw out this bogus stat of 43% opp. FG% which you apparently pulled from God knows where, saying it started in “mid-December.” Apart from this ridiculous notion, you also use try to use a stat as incomplete as opp FG%, which does not account for turnovers forced (the Raps don’t force many), whether the shots were 2 or 3 pointers (use eFG% instead), offensive rebounds (the Raps allow a lot), etc. Use legit stats and give legit dates. Furthermore, I’m not the only one who has ripped on the Raps defensively: witness this game summary by well-considered Yahoo! blogger Kelly Dwyer, who probably watches more basketball than you and I combined:
“Your eyes aren’t deceiving you, the raw numbers aren’t hiding or obscuring or inflating anything. The Toronto Raptors are the worst defensive team you’ve ever seen.
Honestly. Per-possession, factor in the rest of the league’s aptitude, and you’re watching a historically bad defensive team. The team’s slow pace may hide things — entering last night’s loss the Raptors weren’t even the worst team in the NBA in points allowed — but you know better. You don’t have to be up on the Four Factors, you don’t have to write “per 100 possessions” beside your name on every cheque you endorse. The Raptors are the absolute pits.
On Wednesday, the Hawks scored over 152 points per 100 possessions, an astounding number. You can see the raw total of points above, and beyond that? The group shot 59 percent, 52 percent from long range. It hit 31 free throws, grabbed an offensive rebound after over 41 percent of its misses and only turned the ball over nine times.”
The Raps may have improved a bit (that game was in early December) but they are still by far the worst team in the league defensively. You do make some good points that pairing Bargs with Bynum would be a solid combo and that the Cavs don’t have the talent to acquire Bosh, but your statements about the Raptors and Bosh’s and Bargnani’s defense are way off.
[...] have to be added to make the trade work, but Bynum and Bosh are the key players in the trade). Such a proposal has apparently caused Andrew from Waiting for Next Year – a blog about Cleveland s… Andrew explores how the Bynum-Bosh trade could happen and then concludes: “This deal would [...]
@Jack
Thanks for the grammar lession dude. Glad to see the phonics system isn’t a total waste for ya.
Are you suggesting that since the Lakers lost to the Bobcats twice and won a ring last year, that the same will happen to Cleveland??? That my friend, is nothing short of nonsensical.
You can point to all the “trendy” stats early in a season to attempt to prove your point, but you’re not convincing anyone except the Cleveland locals. At the end of the day, the Cavs are one of 3 teams that can walk away as Eastern Conference champs, and until April rolls around, you really can’t say otherwise. And that’s not including Atlanta, who could be a VERY dangerous team come playoff time.
Regardless, you seem to like playing the numbers game. How about Cleveland ranking 21st in FT%? Free throws aren’t an important aspect of playoff ball, are they? Shaq was a GREAT addition in that regard. LeBron’s one of the league leaders in turnovers per game. Maximizing possessions aren’t an important aspect of playoff ball, are they?
“Howard can’t dunk over Shaq”???? HAHAHAHAHA! That just proves how delusional you Cavs fans are, glorifying the local heroes into Gods they clearly aren’t. Shaq is a million years old and can barely get off the ground. Not only can Howard dunk over him, I bet Jason Williams could dunk over him too [that was a joke - not be taken literally].
PS – If you can find all the spelling errors in this post, you get a gold star! Plus you get first crack at the Flinstones Phone during play time, right after show-and-tell.
@Jack
————-
“The Cavs are 18-5 against teams over .500. Two of those losses were to the Dirk-less Mavs and Melo-less Nuggets. They just don’t get up for crap teams.”
————-
LOL!!! I love how you admit the Cavs lack the mental fortitude to compete against weaker opponents. According to your logic, it looks like the Bulls will have a legitimate shot at taking down the Cavs in the 1st round. Thanks for confirming what the rest of the basketball world already knew! Deng’s freakishly long arms can neutralize LeBron, so I guess it’ll be up to your golden boy, Anthony Parker, to carry this team. Please accept my condolences.
Oh, children. Keep the troll out of sunlight, don’t touch it with water, and most assuredly don’t feed it after midnight.
@ Blanks – you know, one or two statements made by a few people doesn’t ‘prove how delusional’ we Cavs fans are. I’m sure I can find ridiculous statements made by fans of whatever team you cheer for by going after selected sample sizes as well. I get it – you don’t like the Cavs. Congrats, you’re pretty original there. Since you won’t admit what team you cheer for, I’ll assume it’s the Wizards. That’s cool – enjoy your pending fire sale.
@Denny
Is this not a Cavaliers site? Why would we talk about any other team here? I suggest you put your drink down, and visit wizards.com if you feel the need to poke fun at them.
If you must know, I’m from Russia, and my favourite team is CSKA Moscow. My favourite player is Dmitri Sokolov. He’s the “Michael Jordan” of Russia. You should see his “air-walk” dunk from 6 feet inside the FT line. It’s a thing of beauty.
Blanks is a Raptors fan, probably found us from Raptors Republic which linked here a couple days ago.
@ Rick
Your powers of deduction are impeccable. Didn’t I see you on CSI?
@Blanks- yes. I was a cadaver.
Blanks, you’re not good at producing sound arguments, nor are you good at interpreting them.
Just one example and I’m done because you think you are smarter than everyone, and, chances are, you’re not. Believe me. I, however, don’t want to waste pop culturally-sensitive insults on you.
Anyway…you stated in one of your earliest posts that the Cavs weren’t going to make it to the finals because they had bad losses, including two losses to Charlotte. I, however, was implying no element of causation. Instead, I merely suggested that two losses to Charlotte do not indicate that a team is weak, struggling, bad, or “not championship material” as we, in fact, saw a championship team (that no one would argue was weak/bad) who loss twice to the Bobcats.
Thanks,
Captain Jack
Where’d you get that nickname by the way? (INNUENDO!)
Captain Jack, you discuss ‘causation’ as if you comprehend the meaning of the word. Instead you sound like a failing philosophy major trying to manufacture a cogent argument where none is to be found.
If you understood my post correctly (which you clearly did not), you would realize that in citing those weak losses earlier this season, I was merely drawing attention to the inconsequentiality of this article. That is, the Cavaliers are not a “lock” to make the finals, as this article implies. A potential Laker trade does not increase the “alert level” for Cleveland. The Cavs are a dominant team, but one of MANY dominant teams in the Eastern Conference. It is a 3-headed race regardless of what you choose to believe. Perhaps you should bring up this topic at your next study group session in an attempt to help you grasp such deep concepts.
“Howard can’t dunk over Shaq” – Brilliant man. Just Brilliant! The best comedic writers in Hollywood couldn’t come up with such gold!
PS – if you decide to reply to this post, let’s see if you have the acuity to do so without settling for name-calling, and silly sexual innuendos that a pre-teen would come up with.
/pwned
LOL WE ARE ALL SMRT!!!
Hey I got a great trade for you guys
Lebron for Hedo or Demar and tickets to the International Film Festival…..lol
its not like the Cavs are going to get out of the East with the team they got
plus Lebrons not going back to Cleveland. He’s better off in the 5th biggest City in North America playing with Bosh, Andrea and possibly Hedo that’s right Toronto now that would be awesome…..
come on guys admit it, it makes sense Cleveland is great if you want to go visit the rock and roll hall of fame after that – not much to offer
cheers,
and oh yeah go RAPS go
You forgot to mention one thing; coaching. The Cavaliers, whether they have D-Wade or not, can only win a championship in 2 or 3 ways: (1) Phil Jackson (2) Greg Popovich (3) Larry Brown. The only three coaches to win an NBA Championship since 1996 (decade). The Cavaliers coach, what’s his name? Oh yah, Mike Brown. Is not championship material, a decent coach nontheless. By the time he figures it out [winning championships], Lebron will be an old man, perhaps, an NBA commentator for TNT. I admire Lebron James and everything he’s done for the NBA, but he needs a better coaching staff. He can only do so much on his own. The CAV’s are lucky if they make it past Boston, let alone Orlando this year.
Right, because Doc Rivers hasn’t won a ring. DERP.