NFL Draft: Quarterbacks
April 21, 2010While We’re Waiting… Lerner’s Fans, NFL Draft Economics and Thoughts on Clausen
April 22, 2010
In case you are living on a different planet, you know all about the Ben Roethlisberger situation. His suspension has come down just an hour ago: Six games and a “comprehensive behavioral evaluation.” You may not have heard what ESPN’s Adam Schefter has reported via his twitter:
Pittsburgh has begun contacting teams to trade Ben Roethlisberger for a top 10 pick. At least one team considering it. Story far from done.
I know a team, picking in the top ten that is in dire need of a franchise QB. No, I’m not talking about the Buffalo Bills. Before you all throw up all over your keyboard, I want to put the question out there to you, our commenters and Browns fans:
If the rumors are true that the Steelers are looking to trade Roethlisberger for a Top 10 pick and you were Mike Holmgren, knowing you need a franchise QB, would you take a shot and trade for him for the #7 pick if the Steelers put the offer on the table?
Conventional wisdom says the Steelers would never trade Big Ben in the division, especially considering he is still in his prime. But didn’t the Eagles just send Donovan McNabb to the Redskins? Granted, this is a past his prime McNabb, but they still have to see him twice a year now. Could you imagine the heights the Browns/Steelers rivalry wou;d climb to if Roethlisberger and his baggage went into Heinz Field wearing Brown and Orange?
At first blush, you say “no way I would ever want to bring this guy in.” Look, I am not condoning his behavior in the least bit. I think what he has done off the field is completely despicable and he deserved to go to jail. Doesn’t mean I don’t think he is a great Quarterback who would improve our beloved Browns tenfold. Take away the baggage, who would you rather have at QB right now – Roethlisberger or Jake Delhomme?
No contest.
But the baggage cannot be ignored. However, if Delhomme already under contract, he could be your starter until the Roethlisberger suspension ends. And the draft is always such a crap shoot. Sure, at #7 Eric Berry could be the next Ed Reed, but he could also become the next Brodney Pool.We’ve been waiting for a legitimate QB in his prime to emerge in this town since “The Lord” Bernie Kosar’s run between 1985-1989. You could have that handed to you for nothing more than the #7 pick possibly.
Call me crazy, I know, but I think I would have to take a long look at it if I were Mike Holmgren.
Now we want to hear from you…Have it at!
141 Comments
I can understand not liking the guy – what he’s accused of isn’t good, at all.
But calling out other people’s fanhood as @stin did is silly. C’mon now.
Lots of bad analogies/comparisons being thrown out here.
We signed Jamal Lewis several years after his police involvement and we did not give up any draft picks to do so. That meant we were only risking cash.
Albert Belle was drafted and developed in our minor league system. When he started acting nutty we dealt with it the best we could. When he was eligible for free agency we did not out bid the crazy contract Chicago gave him.
The question isn’t if Ben was already on the team would we root for him. The question is do we value the damaged goods he has become as highly as the kings ransom the Steelers are demanding. The answer to the correct question is obviously NO. Any GM who gives up a first round pick for a guy currently facing a 6 game suspension (and in danger of being thrown out of the league if he screws up again) should be fired.
No and HELL! NO!
what the hell why not? we suck anyways.
i dont even wanna watch the browns or the Indians anymore
Go Cavs win Game 3!
@103 you probably own a steelers jersey anyways.
No, this guy’s a first class a-hole and wouldn’t have the weapons or the line for his style to succeed. Get that weak stuff outta here.
@Denny….I’m not calling out anyone’s fan hood I’m saying take a second look and a second thought about why you would even want this guy on the team.
I’ve always been a firm believer in representing yourself off the field as well as on and it irritates me to no end when things like this happen and the guy walks off scott free. And don’t tell me nothing went on just because no charges were filed, it seems a bit fishy that on the eve of an investigation the officer in charge of the investigation resigns out of the blue.
I don’t want it to seem like I’m challenging anyone’s love of the team or want to win I’m simply saying this guy doesn’t deserve our support IMHO.
NOT A CHANCE IN HELL…
Never…that man is such a fake douche….
I would still boo him as a brown…
@ stin – sorry if I misread what you’d said, it just sort of came off that way. I think if this team was being held back solely by the lack of a good QB, then you’d have to very seriously consider it. At this point though, it’s not a worthwhile venture.
Is he legally wrong for what he did? According to the Georgia law enforcement, no. Is he morally wrong? I don’t want to think that we’re all naive enough to think that most pro athletes aren’t swimmin’ in women, but you can at least end up in a 21+ bar, and you most certainly don’t need to go bang one out with your bodyguards at the door. He’s skeevy, to be sure, but it’s not like he’s the only athlete out there doing these kinds of things. I’d bet there are plenty of Browns players skating the same kinds of moral lines.
Heck no. I’m going to set aside the fact that we would be taking on his baggage and point out that because we have traded with a division rival in the past, we are now stuck facing Haloti Ngata twice a season for the next 10 years.
As James Walker says, sometimes it’s bad karma to trade within the division.
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/11898/draft-tales-trading-with-the-enemy
@denny your right it did come off that way but it wasn’t really intended
Does trading Santonio Holmes have anything to do with the Steelers’ rumored interest in dealing Ben? I have come to believe that getting back to the Superbowl as fast as possible is all Rooney cares about. They may have concluded that, to achieve that, it’s time now to rebuild.
Got to love “fanhood” as a protected identity.
Do not call out anyone’s fanhood.
Not in these parts.
@ stin – NBD; just a major peeve of mine. I even like wrote a post a while back about it and everything.
@ matt#2 – it’s not the issue of being insecure about one’s fanhood that I have a problem with, it’s trying to demean others by using the word. Na’mean?
There is no way the Steelers would ever trade Ben to the Browns. I have a funny feeling that all this trade talk is charade by the Steelers FO to scare Ben and to pacify portions of the Steeler fanbase. No one except possibly the raiders will pay the kings ransome that the Steelers want, so Ben will still be on the team next year. In another year, everyone will have forgotten about all this (e.g. Ray Lewis) and life goes on for the Steelers.
@ Denny: Sure, other athletes are out there doing very questionable stuff and of course doing equally or more reprehensible things. However, Big Ben is a general douchebag – I went to college in PA and unfortunately had/have lots of Pittsburgh friends. They are all full of stories about how Big Ben was a complete jerk at place X when they or someone they knew ran into him.
Guy waltzes around thinking he owns the place, no matter what the venue is. That’s reflected in his treatment of women, which at best, is morally garbage.
So, certainly other athletes are just as arrogant/jerky and even worse than Ben, but given the overwhelming weight of authority I have on his general jerkiness, I don’t want the guy anywhere near the Browns roster.
In my experience, when you are that big of a general arrogant jerk, it’s pretty tough to change your basic attitude, even if you really try. It can be done but I don’t think this buffoon has the smarts or the willpower to do so.
BTW, as an addendum to my post @ 115, I think Ben’s general horrendous attitude and poor goodwill among fans who have met him in Pittsburgh or elsewhere is reflected in how outraged and angry the Pittsburgh fan base seems to be for the most part… they already know he’s a huge jerk and don’t feel compelled to give him the benefit of the doubt as much as they might otherwise.
Holmgren: Ben’s getting kicked to the curb, maybe I should scrap this whole “west coast” thing I’ve been doing.
Denny
You mean the f word?
(I’m truly laughing about fanhood, as a word, a code, and as something that, dammit, matters. My comment was not intended as a criticism, Ahz Jus Funnin.)
Yes yes and yes again,
look, the man has won 2 superbowls, he is a leader and a good quarterback. I would be shocked if he had more off the field issues, how can we say no in this situation. I guess i just dont understand it.
I agree with all the character reasons to not bring in the guy…
But saying talent-wise he’s solely a product of his environment is a bit ridiculous. As much as I hate everything about Ben Roethlisberger, the guy is a top 5 quarterback in the league (when healthy and not suspended for being a giant sleazebag).
Last year the Bears traded 2 first rounders and more for Jay Cutler, and Ben is better than Cutler.
Ultimately I say no, since his next slip-up (and it WILL happen, which is why the Steelers are willing to jettison his ass) is going to see him out for a year+.
I thought we were getting high character guys ? NO.
118, That is another bad comparison. Cutler was not suspended for six games at the time of the trade. Also, the fact that the Bears overpaid for an overrated QB is no justification for us overpaying for an overrated QB.
I would make the deal for our 7th overall pick in a heartbeat. It would be hard to hate a quarterback that could get the Browns into the playoffs consistently. It would remove any need to draft a QB this year, and with our plethora of picks from the second round on, we’d fill our gaps in the backfield and at receiver.
I know how much you hate Roethlisberger, I do too, I bleed orange and brown just as much as the next guy. But honestly, could you really pass this up?
rothlisberger is gone from pittsburgh. say what you want about steelers fans but this accrues well to them –> http://www.post-gazette.com/polls/?pollID=3599
i can’t behind our #7 for him, but i might could build a rationalization at another level. i don’t love him as a QB, but he is definitely a proven winner, you have to give him that.
for a devil’s advocate (kinda) position.. see whitlock. http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/why-big-ben-really-deserved-the-suspension
Forgive me if I repeat what was said already. I didn’t read all the posts. Sue me.
No on the trade. He’s a product of his environment. A top-notch defense, very good WR’s, above average RB’s, and a solid O-Line have made Roethlisberger into a better QB than he really should be. If he played here, he’d be getting knocked down more than a bowling pin, and as many times as that’s happend in Pittsburgh, his durability would be a big question mark. Besides running for his life, he dosen’t have All-Pro WR’s to bail him out. Or a proven running game to get the passing game going. So charecter issues aside, just talking in between the lines here, I don’t think it’s in the Browns best interset to trade for this guy.
The greatest damage to the Browns organization from bringing in Rothlissberger would be to the credibility of Holmgren, Mangini et al. It would instantly prove that all the rhetoric about “the importance of character” and off-the-field behavior was just that–rhetoric. Say what you mean and mean what you say!
If he comes to Cleveland, I’ll buy him a motorcycle.
Ehhh, no thanks. Anecdotal evidence has his douchery extending way back. Friends of mine that were former teammates of his at Miami have related that this behavior is more the norm than an aberation. And this was discussed way back before his two “incidents”, right around the time he was drafted and one of the first meetings against the Browns. Looking back on our conversation and what has been alleged and reported from Midglettyeville is nearly exactly how his douchery (and worse) at Miami was described to me.
regardless of which side of this argument you are on this is exactly why we have the best fans in the NFL.
I spent all last night arguing with my few friends that are insufferable steeler fans about why I would never want this guy. One thing I can see either way in this argument is that at least Browns fans can string ideas together to present intelligent arguments. Every steeler fan I’ve met can only reply “well we have rings”….that’s not an argument and it’s a total cop out. Can’t wait to see what happens tonight.
I will leave all the morality issues aside for a second and just say I think we will see a big dropoff in his production very soon. I think it is obvious by his physique and his off the field hobbies that he does not take offseason training seriously and as he gains more weight and gets hit more, he will lose the skills that currently makes him what he is.
Of course, I always thought he was overrated anyways. To credit him with that first superbowl win is crazy. He actually almost single handedly lost that game.
And until the last minute TD to Holmes in the second superbowl win the steelers defense had scored as many touchdowns as their offense. Think about that for a minute. He hasn’t won anything. His defense keeps him in games until the last minute or so and then he makes a play more times than not. That’s the only credit I’ll give him.
I went to Miami University when Ben did and still I say without reservation NO!
Don’t make me roll up a newspaper and smack you on the nose TD.
Never trade for that worthless piece of garbage. I wouldn’t hit a dog in the butt with that cocky so and so.
Trading for Rapelessburger would be like the Browns franchise selling its soul to Art Modell (Satan) for Super Bowl.
No Rapelessburger ever.
@130. As a Steelers fan, I can get your frustration with the rings argument. While not a detailed argument it is a strong one, the Steelers do things the right way. If I was a Browns fan I would be mixed on dealing the pick for Ben. People are right in that he deserves credit for only one of the Super Bowls. I can honestly say as someone that only recently as begun to like Ben as a player that he is one of the best 4th quarter quarterbacks the league has ever seen. However, he does not put together a complete game often. He’ll start and end strong. Advantages to the trade would be the inherent familarity that he has with the division and you would be getting a quarterback who has only won in this league..don’t underestimate that fact. Personally, I think if traded Ben is less likely to make another stupid decision than if he remains a Steeler. If the 6 game punishment does not change his off-field behavior, then being traded after coming after a 4,000 yard season would indicate to him that his off-field behavior is just as if not more important than on. Final synopsis–as a Steeler fan, I say good riddance—we have too many holes right now and perhaps a restructuring of the team is needed. If I was a Browns fan, I would be very interested in acquiring Ben. You would get a potential hall of fame quarterback for less than what Cutler cost, while stealing him from a divisional rival! that’s incredible.
i’m really surprised at all the definitive “no’s”
there is no denying that the guy is a playmaker, would make this team better immediately, and still be around for the next 7 or 8 years… would i trade the #7 pick? not a definite yes, but i would definitely give it a long hard look
Hey Strawman, you know the Browns organization has more championships than the steelers, right?
And (I mean this seriously), what exactly do you mean when you and all the other steelers’ fans say they do it “the right way”.
I live in pittsburgh now, and what I see is an organiztion that does things the right way when it involves a player that sucks. But when Harrison beats a woman, nothing is done. When Reed acts like a fool, nothing is done. When Holmes does drugs and beats women they only get rid of him when he on the last year of his contract and about to miss 4 games.
If a practice team player would have done what this guy did, the rooneys would have cut him immediately and stood behind their “we do things the right way” crap. But they are only going to get rid of this turd if the price is right. That’s not doing things the right way, it is trying to win as many football games as you can. JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER TEAM DOES.
I’m not saying the Browns do it any better or their players are saints. But at least Browns’ fans don’t come off all high and mighty about this kind of thing.
The Browns also are one of 4 NFL franchises to have never participated in a Super Bowl (2 of whom joined the league within the past 15 years).
First off, the right way doesn’t always mean taking the moral high road. When I say they do things the right way, I also mean the way that they draft, the overall organizational attitude. The Steelers are historic for letting players go elsewhere and rebuilding through the draft, that is the right way to be a competitor in this football league. But we can also talk about morality.
You pointed out a lot of actions that were made by Steelers players and how the organization choose to respond to those decisions. When was the last time the Steelers acquired a player with Holmes’s history through free agency or a trade? How many other franchises would trade Holmes or consider trading Big Ben? A minority.
Also, nevermind the fact that the Steelers organization happened to open the door for minority coaches and even hired one themselves! I understand the nihilistic view that organizations are all about winning. And yes, the Steelers do care about the bottom line. However, they value things above winning much more than many teams in the league. It’s not a high and mighty attitude of we’re better than others. It’s the way you treat people. When your most public employees are professional athletes it is inevitable that you will have negative press from time to time. These actions need to be evaluated on a step by step basis. If the Steelers made no moves to trade Ben you would probably slam them for being hypocrites. The argument that you made that every NFL organization tries to win is something that nothing that I say will change your mind, but you should at least acknowledge that there is a difference between the way that the Steelers make personal decisions and the way other organizations do. They let Burress walk, making no effort to retain him after it was clear that he wasn’t changing his ways.
5KMD
If we’re talking about the Browns organization with more championships than the Steelers and if that organization exists in some form today, then we are talking about the current Ravens organization.
Matt,
Nope, deal was the new Browns kept the history. And my overall point is that steelers’ fans think football was invented in 1970.
Strawman, we will have to agree to disagree. I think the teams that pick up a troubled soul are in the minority, not the ones that avoid them.
I actually have no problem with the steelers organization or most of the players. It’s the fans that bother me since I live here. The ones that think they are somehow part of the reason for the steelers success.
I talked to one guy at work who said that the steelers are successful because the fans here “demand success”. When I asked why they don’t take that “demanding attitude” down to PNC park and the pirates, he didn’t have much of an answer. I have a feeling “steeler nation” will lose a lot of members after a couple more seasons like last year.
You all want Ben. If you did, then maybe you’d have a chance to finish ahead of Pitt in the division.
How many QB 1st round busts do you want to be reminded of? Where is Brady Quinn right now?
Uh, huh. 4 out of the 5 top QB’s taken won’t even be starting in 4 years.
Ben is a proven starter and winner that needs help keeping his drunken behavior under control.
The first chick is an obvious liar and trying to get money from Ben.
The second girl – who knows the real story. All we know is she followed Ben around and was really really drunk. She may have been thinking ‘no’ and was so drunk she couldn’t move her lips. Doesn’t make Ben’s behavior right but he did not get charged of a crime.
Keep that in mind. I mean, Ray Lewis killed a guy and he’s still playing.
What can you say, He was born and taught how to respect women in the great state of Ohio