NFL Rumors: Browns Not Finished With Free Agents?
April 27, 2010Your 2010 Playoffs NBA All-Animal Team
April 27, 2010Thanks to a record of 5-11, the Browns had the luxury to choose sixth in the second round. With a top-rated cornerback in their pocket, the big question was regarding what they would do with that 38th overall selection. Some said quarterback. Others said another defensive back. Another defensive back not named Taylor Mays.
For better or worse, newly drafted Browns safety TJ Ward will be compared to San Francisco’s Taylor Mays for the forseeable future. Mays had a bigger name, quite a highlight reel and was a guy that many Browns fans have been coveting for over a year. And with both players available, the Browns shunned the YouTube hero for someone that they felt better suited the future of the team, and the opinions came flying out of the word work.
Message boards, talk radio, blog comments… You name it. How could the Browns even consider passing up on Taylor Mays?
Alas, the Philadelphia Eagles selected Nate Allen one pick ahead of the Browns and Tom Heckert was forced to find the next best player on his draft board. And per Heckert himself, that player was one TJ Ward out of Oregon. Sure, the name may not as big as Mays’. But then again, Ward did not have the luxury to build his legacy while playing behind a linebacking group that featured Rey Maualuga, Clay Matthews Jr, and Brian Cushing.
Notice the drop in Mays’ production year-over-year following the departure of the abovementioned linebackers. Despite being known more for being the guy that was juked out of his shoes early in the contest, TJ Ward went on to record 10 tackles against Ohio State in the Rose Bowl. Taylor Mays, against the same Ohio State team, did not fare too well. Mays had a shot to play the Buckeyes for the second time in the season if not for losing to Oregon 47-20 earlier in the year. The last play of the game resulted in Matt Barkely’s pass being intercepted. Intercepted by TJ Ward.
“He’s a super tough kid and makes a lot of plays in the run game,” said Browns general maanger Tom Heckert. “We think he can cover – we worked him out and think he has good athletic ability.”
Sure, a lot of pundits and publications feel that the Browns reached for Ward. But a lot of those pundits and publications were not privy to the draft boards of the NFL teams that were selecting this past weekend. After all, Mel Kiper still feels that Jimmy Clausen was the third-best player in the entire pool and we all know what happend to the Notre Dame product.
What did Tom Heckert think about Mays?
“We think Taylor is a good football player too,” said Heckert. “But TJ was a guy that we spent a lot of time with and a guy that we felt comfortable with who could come in and help our defense.”
But let’s take the names out of it for a minute and go to the tape…
Giving Mays the benefit of the doubt, we can compare he and Ward over the past two seasons. Mays suited up for 25 games, recording 149 tackles (5.96 per game) – two of which were for a loss. Ward only played in 21 games over the two year period due to injuries that have been discussed ad nauseum. In said 21-game period, Ward recorded 169 tackles (8.05 per game) – eight of which were for a loss.
A lot has been made of Ward’s weaknesses when not playing the run. Looking at the fact that he only hauled in two interceptions over a two year stretch, and this concern is understandable. But also in that two year stretch, the Oregon safety broke up 14 passes. This total is higher than Mays (12), Nate Allen (five) and even Chad Jones from LSU (four).
“I think his ball skills are fine,” said Heckert. “You know they used him in the box quite a bit so he had fewer opportunities to do [record interceptions].”
“Ward was very loose in the hips, which bodes well for his coverage ability at the next level,” said Gil Brandt on Ward’s Pro Day.
But what about his speed? Mays ran a 40-yard dash that blew away his competition. That he did, with a time of 4.31 seconds. And while Mays proved that he is great in straight lines, his 20-yard shuttle time (4.24) was the slowest of the four safeties that have been mentioned in this very piece. The quickest 20-yard shuttle time? TJ Ward with 4.12 seconds.
Pat Kirwan, take it away…
“A man who runs a 4.4 40 and a 4.4 short shuttle is really a guy with straight-line speed who may not play very fast because of a lack of quickness. He is often referred to as a guy with “track speed.” Conversely, an athlete who runs an average time of 4.7 in the 40 but can hit the short shuttle in 3.9 — significantly better than the 0.5 differential — can overcome his average speed with great quickness and change of direction.”
Compared to three safeties from last season, Ward had a faster 40-time and 20-yard shuttle time than Patrick Chung, Louis Delmas and William Moore – all safeties taken in the second round. And as an added bonus, let’s compare him to the quintessential AFC North safety, Troy Polamalu, when he came out of college in 2003. Ward is almost identical in height, weight and 40-time (Polamalu ran a 4.40). Polamalu recorded 14 pass break-ups in his final two seasons, with 7.75 tackles per game.
But Mays has a nose for the ball. He absolutely crushes ball-carriers, right?
For good measure, Ward has his own fair share of YouTube sensations…
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc8-gJqzWws]
There’s a good chance that the Oklahoma State QB is still seeing stars. Heckert labeled Ward’s hitting as “infections.” He may not be as big as Mays – something that actually helps him long-term, as Mays may be moved to outside linebacker later in his career – but can hit with every bit of intensity. He’s every bit of a run-stopper that actually may be more versatile than his USC peer. And while he may have had his fair share of injuries, none of these issues have been concussion-related – something that Browns fans cannot say about Ward’s predecessor.
“I’m 100 percent,” said Ward in a post-selection conference call. “I’ll be ready for this first minicamp coming up and I am ready to contribute in any way the coaches or staff need me too.”
And finally, I would not count out the perceived character issue. It was only a matter of minutes before Mays went to the media to disparage his former coach Pete Carroll for passing on him three times. While this says a lot on its own, the fact of the matter was that Carroll felt comfortable enough with his current defense – especially newly drafted safety Earl Thomas. There was obviously something about Mays that the Browns did not like, which lead to Ward being placed above him on their draft board, for better or worse.
Whether or not the Browns made the right move will be only be shown after a few seasons of play. But judging from what we know, the measurables, the video and the commentary all show that Mays may not have exactly been the best option at 38th overall.
Only time will tell…
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(Update 4/28: For some additional Ward insight, head to Cleveland Frowns)
(Image from Ducksports.com)
44 Comments
A lot of “experts” predict Mays will continue to get bigger and have to be converted to a LB. It makes sense since the guy is 6’3″ and will continue growing as well as working out.
I could really care less if Ward intercepts a ball at all while with the Browns as long as he continues to lay wood in the pro’s and keep receivers thinking about him. Assuming this guy stays healthy I think Heckert made the right pick.
I think the Browns should add wings to the shoulders of their unis.
*hangs head*
OK, I’m done coveting Taylor Mays. He has the name. He has the big hits. He has the 40-time.
But, if Ward stays healthy, he should help the Browns fans forget about Mays.
Now, can I still be jealous of the Chiefs landing Eric Berry?
Taylor Mays’ college coach passed on Taylor Mays.
Mays is a GREAT safety – as long as you don’t need a safety that can change directions, backpedal, swivel his hips, intercept a ball, take any sort of decent angle at tackling or use his arms while tackling.
good article. you’ve convinced me Ward was the better pick!
@ Denny, maybe they could start using green wing stickers.
Great piece Scott. Definitely changed my perspective.
Carroll didn’t pass on Mays three times. The Seahawks had first round picks at 6 and 14. They picked Okung at 6 – thus filling a desperate need at LT – then picked Thomas, a safety, at 14. Their next pick wasn’t until 60. Mays was picked before then.
btw how horrible would it be to be in Zac Robinson’s shoes on this play…my goodness
“Now, can I still be jealous of the Chiefs landing Eric Berry?”
Yes. And you can hate them more for taking the RB that Philly wanted, thus forcing them to take Nate Allen at 37…
Taylor is a girl’s name – there, I just settled the debate for everybody.
Agreed with the rest of these scott. I definitely was questioning him being taken so high, but you sold it to me. The browns need to hire you for PR.
I’m just mad the Browns didn’t try to trade up for Locker or Mallett.
Man… I’ve been trying to make this point about Mays to a buddy of mine for two and a half years now. You hit the nail on the head with this. Good work.
I like what the Browns did in the draft this yeah. I think that the Ward and Hardesty picks LOOK like reaches but when you consider that they were reactions to events (Ben Tate going one pick ahead of where we picked Hardesty and Nate Allen going a few ahead of where we got Ward) it seem clear to me that Heckert was going for the next Big Back and Safety on his boeard at that slot so that we wouldn’t miss out on good players at those positions. That’s what’s called “having a plan.” If the player you want is gone, you just go to the next guy. Maybe you could criticize and say that they could have taken Tate in the second round and still gotten Ward in the third. But we’ll never know. Either way, two pretty good NFL caliber players.
I like Ward, if he stays healthy I like that we have him. My issue is we picked him up in the 2nd round. I think we could have gotten someone like Benn or Gronkowski or Kindle with the pick and gotten Ward later still. But, we got him and I like it! Go Browns.
“he may run like Mays but he hits like sh*t!”
I DON’T CARE WHAT HECKERT THINKS HE KNOWS. I SPENT NEARLY 1 HOUR OVER THE LAST MONTH FIGURING OUT WHO THE BROWNS SHOULD DRAFT AND THAT HACK TOTALLY IGNORED ME!
Excellent analysis. I too was distraught at the Ward reach at first, but Heckert knows more than I do.
BTW, Kuiper had Clausen at No. 4, not 3. And in the second-last paragraph, it should say “led” rather than “lead.” (The misuse of led/lead is near the top of my grammar board.)
/Thank you, Mr. Anal Retentive
Well played Scott….The fact that Mays dropped so much makes me think he isn’t as talented as he seems. On the other hand, it makes me worry about McCoy too.
Z – quarterbacks are a different animal in the drafts. I’d compare Mays to DBs; in that regard, it was a pretty big fall considering initial mocks had him going in the ‘teens.
I always miss the part of the combine where they measure loose hips. Guessing they use a hula hoop… Wait! I think they showed it as a side graphic during draft coverage when each guy smiles real goofy-like and dances with the ball. And here I thought that was just some humiliating ESPN hazing ritual.
“BTW, Kuiper had Clausen at No. 4, not 3. And in the second-last paragraph, it should say “led” rather than “lead.” (The misuse of led/lead is near the top of my grammar board.)”
Its Kiper, not Kuiper.
/dose of your own medicine’d
TEE-JAY! TEE-JAY! TEE-JAY! TEE-JAY! TEE-JAY! TEE-JAY!
well Mr. Cleaveland, if ur looking for anal retentive, its Kiper, not Kuiper 🙂 ESPN doesnt use .271 hitting second basemen with only 1 career homer for their draft coverage…although I imagine he might do just was well on the prognostications
@BrianRut4…you beat me to it…lol
As long as he hits RB’s and WR’s like he did in that clip then who really cares. The Browns didn’t like Nate Allen as much as Ward anyway. For those of you who loved Nate Allen consider this from a RealGM writer.
“Someone needs to explain to me how a South Florida defense with Jason Pierre-Paul, Jerome Murphy, Nate Allen, and Kion Wilson–three top 50 picks and a top 150 pick, plus Selvie, could rank just 31st in scoring defense, tied with my NFL prospect-less (apologies to Thad Turner) Ohio Bobcats. Reminds me of NC State a few years back with Mario Williams, John McCargo, Manny Lawson, and Dajuan Morgan, which produced one stud and a whole lot of high-pick disappointment.”
That says a lot to me that the guy might just be overrated. Mays just isn’t that good. I thought the Browns could move him to LB now if they had drafted him. I provided the link for you below to that article.
Read more: http://football.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/16723/20100420/25_fearless_nfl_draft_predictions/#ixzz0mKVSiYU4
31st out of 119 isn’t all that bad. not great, but not all that bad. and i don’t think those Ohio Bobcats played quite the same schedule either.
anyways, my wife and her dad are diehard USC fans. i have seen a lot of Taylor. they both hate him and were glad to see him graduate. they both guaranteed that Carroll would make sure he selected a safety with one of his first 2 picks just as an excuse to not select Taylor (yeah, that’s a bit much, but with Berry and Earl possibilities and their dire need, it makes some sense).
if USC fans were that frustrated with a guy and the USC coach didn’t think enough of him to pass on Earl for another need there and trade-up to get him (they had enough picks for ammo), then i have no issues passing him up.
@23 and 25
DOH!
Guess I was half-anal retentive.
“.271 hitting second basemen ”
Som Kuiper was a better hitter than than this season’s Sizemore/Pronk combo? Agreed.
The futility of looking back at the draft is that everybody does it the same way they looked forward to it. If I say “I hope they get Mays, I hope they get Mays,” and they don’t get Mays, then my grade for the draft will be an F.
Real post-draft analysis would explain why so many teams, including the Carrolls, passed on Mays, why so many teams didn’t draft Clausen, etc.
Otherwise, we don’t need to listen to Kiper grade people. We just need to see how close teams came to his draft, and we can figure out his “grades” for ourselves.
The Other Tim,
You must mean Yom Kippur, famous for his refusal to suit up on Saturday.
if he could do that ONE time against Heinz Ward it woulda been worth the pick
if he could do that ONE time against Heinz Ward it would be worth the pick
This article represents blogging at its best. Great piece, Scott.
Heckert and Holmgren came out and said they had Ward rated higher than Allen on their board…fyi
The eagles selected nate allen after the browns selected tj ward
The eagles selected nate allen after the browns selected tj ward
a couple more things, which you might not know if you don’t follow the pac 10 so closely (i live in pac 10 land):
1) ward was a CB as an underclassman and got moved to FS to allow oregon to get their four best DB’s on the field. he can cover.
2) oregon’s defense like to show multiple formations – including even and odd fronts. the point is that the players have to know how their responsibilities change with each formation. the ability to do assimilate that kind of complexity is mandatory to get playing time in ryan’s defensive scheme, which was so complex even the vets playing crennel’s vanilla scheme didn’t have it all down by the beginning of 2009 – forcing ryan to simplify.
[…] player. I imagine Browns fans may now compare these two throughout the season. Scott already warned us to avoid the Mays-Ward comparisons and nitpicking. There is never a draft where a coach does […]
@12 Taylor is a LAST name. There, now the debate is settled.
Randomly saw this article as a suggested link, looks like Scott as well as H&H got this one right as Mays got traded after only 1 season to the Bengals, and he hardly sees any playing time.
I sure hope that the OkSt QB referenced in the video is not who I am thinking of.
i’ll give you a hint: he’s not a man. he’s not 40.
(second hint: it’s from 2009, it’s not Weeden)