Should Cavs retire LeBron’s number?
Written By: Bowers | Category: Cleveland Cavaliers, General | Comments: 58SportsbyBrooks posted a poll on Wednesday asking the question:
Should the Cavaliers retire LeBron James’ number 23 in the future? There were 3,964 yes votes, as compared to 6,910 no votes when I first checked this morning. I then proceeded to make it 6,911.
I am fully aware that the wounds from ‘the decision’ are still fresh, and that time is the perpetual healer of wounds like these, however I just don’t see it. There is really no situation that I can ever envision where I could see myself one day saying – as a Cleveland Cavaliers fan - alright, I understand what he did, it’s okay now, go ahead and hoist it right up there right next to Price and AC.
In the post, Brooks goes on to make the counter-argument to this - that I think will become the consensus amongst all non-Cleveland sports fans as the years go by - when he offered the following:
“Were the Cavs better off never having James? Is it appropriate to gauge his contribution to the city based on a month’s worth of profound bad judgement? Do Clevelanders really want to throw away memories of the good times James provided them by burying the number of the club’s greatest player? The call is really not about James, it’s about recognizing an era of Cleveland basketball history. To disown it would be to also disregard the people who supported the team then and now.”
I respect this arguement, and I understand where he’s coming from with it, but it wasn’t just a month’s worth of bad judgment. He disrespected Cleveland unlike any sports player whoever put on a uniform in the way that he left, and to think that this plan was in progress since the ’08 Olympics is mind numbing.
In a piece last night, Bill Livingston offered the following on the subject:
“The number 23 will never hang in the rafters on Gilbert’s watch. It is entirely appropriate that it never hangs there at all…James would have been excused his defection on the grounds of his body of work had he left in a less mean-spirited way. He was the most visible symbol of the Cavaliers and nearly of the entire NBA for seven years. It took a lot to turn such gold into lead, but he managed it. James ran away from his struggles. We may never know all the reasons why he quit in Game 5 against the Celtics, but he was such a megalomaniac it could hardly have been a crisis of confidence, as with Mesa.”
It’s that point that Livingston makes about Game 5 that particularly makes the ’08 talks between Bosh, Wade, and James so perplexing. Why did he quit in that moment, in that game? We’ll never really know I guess, but we also will never forget that he did quit. We’ll also never forget the way in which he left either, and unfortunately, it will never inspire a positive feeling in this town to look up and see his name and number hanging from the Quicken Loans Arena ceiling.
All is not lost for James though. He can have his number six retired in Miami, and go into the HOF as a member of the Heat.
Author: BrendanBowers
Brendan Bowers is a weekend editor at WFNY, and resides in Cleveland, Ohio. You can read more from him at his blog Stepien Rules, follow him on twitter, or email him at bowers@waitingfornextyear.com.Brendan Bowers has written 13 articles for Waiting for Next Year.
uh…no.
LeBron forgot everything Cleveland did for him. I don’t mind forgetting everything he did for Cleveland.
The last time I saw lebron interested was after we won the ECF against Detroit. After that it was just about him and whatever he wanted to put in.
I’m a Durant fan now.
I guess this kind of depends on what the criteria is to have your number retired. If it’s simply based on stats and wins, you have to retire his number. He is clearly the best all around player ever to wear a Cavs uniform…and I’m not sure it’s even close.
If we are going to include professionalism, character, and general “likeablility”, I guess you don’t have to do it.
I am picturing a ceremony where the person having his number retired is getting booed by the home crowd. Awkward to say the least.
I think it will be done, but not for a long time. Certainly not while Gilbert owns the team, and maybe not even while LeBron is still alive.
It’s not just that he left,
It’s not just that he went on TV to kick us in the teeth,
It’s not just that he had this planned for at least 3 years,
It’s not just that his actions prevented us from surrounding him with other talent,
It’s not just he never recruited anyone of his “friends” to come here,
It’s not just that he quit in the playoffs,
It’s not just that he prevented coaches from coming here,
It’s not just that he held the franchise hostage,
It’s all these things.
LeBron did great things for this city, and gave me many great memories of my favorite “pro” basketball team, and was, for seven years, our hometown hero, but he also stabbed every fan like me in the back in the WAY he chose to leave, not by simply just signing elsewhere. This combination is, in my opinion, is what makes his decision so painful and hard to take. If he was a free agent that we had signed to get us “over the hump” and couldn’t get it done, and then left…no big deal. Not only do I think we shouldn’t retire his number, I don’t think the city, state or Cavalier fans in general will EVER forgive or forget this. It’s as if he viewed playing for the Cavaliers as working for the worst organization in the history of business. He couldn’t wait to “flip us the bird” on his way out. Believe me, I have been there with companies that I have previously worked for, but while he was here, I never would have thought that he felt that way about the team.
The era is honored by the Central Division and Eastern Conference Champs banners hanging, not his number.
Great marriage that ends in a horrible, ugly, and bitter divorce taints the whole marriage, period. You don’t leave a pic of your ex-wife on the mantle.
I think The Cavs organization needs to assign the Number 23 immediately for this coming season, the sooner the better. Even if it’s to the 15th guy on the bench.
i almost think it should be the 15th guy on the bench just to disrespect him
Brian’s analogy is fitting.
He burned every bridge he could on his way out and pretty much tainted every good memory I have from the last decade of Cleveland basketball.
#5, #8, #11 pretty much seal the argument. Short and sweet, analogy included.
The next local player we get should wear number 23. A spit in #6′s face. If we trade for Koufos, let Koufos wear 23. If we re-sign Jawad Williams. Ask Hot Wad to change his number to 23. That number should be reserved for local players from now on. Eventually we should hang it from the rafters because #6 did do great things for this team.
But, we don’t hang it in some ceremonial fashion. Like ten years from now, we just put it up before a game in mid-season. No flashing lights, no announcement. We just put it up. one game it’s not hanging there, the next game it’s hanging.
We don’t even put a name on the back of the jersey, we just put ‘Native’ on the back with the number 23
He burned all bridges in Cleveland and spat in the faces of the fans there by leaving as he did. he doesn’t deserve to have his number retired there.
The Cavs should retire number 23, Michael Jordan’s number 23.
No way. Not a chance. I feel pretty strongly about it today but I wonder if my feelings will change in 10 years. I doubt it.
no.
LeBron James played for the Cavaliers, but he is not a Cavalier.
You wouldn’t be able to hold a ceremony without the Q erupting in boo’s.
15 years from now and a new owner… possibly.
It takes a lifetime to build a reputation, and a moment to destroy it.
that writer is way off base by saying it was one month of bad judgments. a big part of the issue we have with lebron now is that it has become more and more clear that for the past 2-3 years (at least) lebron was NEVER engaged with the team, city or organization yet led everyone to believe he was. he has been plotting this scheme for years – not just for one month. why in the world should this organization give him the top honor it can to a player when it is now clear he wanted nothing to do with them for years?? there is no question his on-court talent was fantastic up until the end. why should the organization give him that kind of respect when he clearly did not have one iota of respect for them (or us)?
I agree with Gren- retire 23, with the rest of the NBA, for Jordan. Until then, a bench player can surely wear it.
that this is even a subject for debate is laugh-able.
it’s a conversation manufactured by ‘ESPN’s suck-up brigades’ [thanks Livy] to let them do their polls that will show the state of ohio standing alone in saying that, ‘no, we don’t want to honor lebron james by retiring his number.’ we’ll see several national ‘experts’ rhetorically asking whether cavs fans would’ve chosen seven years with lebron versus nothing… suggesting that we were indeed spoiled by his presence here.
-first, the question is not rhetorical and i think we’d be better off today if he’d never been here. it’s not open-and-shut.
-but second, to frame the debate so simplistically overlooks the depth of the screwing he gave us, perfectly outlined by historycat.
and cleveland will stand alone portrayed nationally as irrational bitter spurned lovers who need to get over it and forgive. by media types.
however i think in this case we’ll find surprising brotherhood in the community of sports fans. lebron alienated all (ok most) sports fans, not just us.
What if he never wins a ring and at the end of his over-hyped career, he decides he wants to retire as a Cavalier?
Yes, we should definitely retire his number. Then we should hang a giant mural of Art Modell on Browns Stadium and erect a statue of Jimmy Dimora on Public Square.
As part of the Cleveland diaspora now living on the west coast I’ve always been a little embarrassed by the love/hatred passive/aggressive reaction many Clevelanders have with certain players.
Albert Belle was revered as an Indian, then despised as an ex-Indian, but he was a thug all along and we all knew it. Jim Thome was a class act as an Indian and just as much a class act afterwards. But the reception he got when he returned to Jacob’s Field as a visiting player was just plain shameful.
Who can forget how Roberto Alomar was booed in Cleveland in the playoffs as a Baltimore Oriole after that spitting incident with an ump? A couple years later, Alomar changes uniforms and he’s cheered.
Shrug.
When James returns to Cleveland as a member of the Heat, that game will likely be televised nationally and we’ll be able to relive the Decision all over again. I’m afraid it’ll turn into a national spectacle… and another embarrassing display of raw emotions.
I hope the game is boycotted. Fans can show their displeasure simply by staying home… and filling the Q with empty seats.
Did I miss something? Does the Q have a championship trophy on display? Did he prove he was a champion and I wasn’t paying attention? Last I checked, he was a freak of an athlete, but not a champion. If he would have won it all in Cleveland then I would say ya, retire the number. In any business, do you get the top promotion or become the savior of the business when you can’t reach the ultimate goal and land the deal. This seams absurd that the Cavs or the Cavs fans would even consider retiring his number.
boycotting the game does nothing to lebron. that just hurts the cavs now and dan gilbert. i can see doing that it were Gilbert’s/Cavs fault that lebron left but the team did everything they could to make him stay. they bent over backwards to make him happy and he gave them zero respect and professionalism in return. comparing lebron to anyone else’s departure is comparing apples to oranges. at least Thome said the right things on the way out. lebron didnt even try to say the right things but went out of his way to be a first class P-O-S on the way out.
so miami and OSU play this year. is lebron going to ignore the game? will he quietly root for OSU? will he throw his OSU fan-dom in Miami’s face like he did to us with the yankees? will he root for Miami?
it’s not just the WAY #6 left the team – no. It’s also, in large part, because of the actual team he left; a winning team, a seemingly fun team, a first-place team. If he was on a 10-win team, nobody would hold a grudge, “Decision” or no “Decision.”
I feel like so many writers have never actually laced up the boots (soccer term for shoes) and sweated and bled with their fellow mates. They’ve never ridden the highs or been smacked by the lows. They have no perspective. This guy, for one, certainly doesn’t understand that it’s bigger than a TV show.
I am a competitor and I always chased titles with the guys in my locker room, from high school to the pros. I wasn’t as good or as successful as #6 is, but I think I gave everything I had, every day. And I am pretty sure the guys I played with, and the fans I played for, would agree. I left my heart on the field and I think that’s how you earn respect.
Are the Cavs better off never having had #6? NO. Are we better off without him? You bet we are.
Agree with saggy here.. Ive said it before- LBJ can’t use the excuse “I want to play for a winning team” because he left a 60+ win team of the last two seasons. I dont buy that. He quit on his team this playoffs just so he could say,”well we couldnt win it all.” He just wanted out of Ohio and did it in the worst way possible. And the BS that comes out within the first week of him being a cHeat hes recruiting meeting players at the airport all this and that- when did he put that effort in during the past 7 years?
I think the Cavs should retire #23 when the Heat are in town next season. With Jordan’s name on the jersey.
in the words of the late great Redd Foxx, aka fred Sanford: “Do mice bark?”
I believe that LeBrons number will eventually be retired here. Theres plenty of young kids who watch basketball, and 5-10 years from now they will only know LeBron as #6, the guy who won a bunch of championships in Miami. To a lot of these young kids, the fact that LeBron started in Cleveland will be an afterthought.
It wont stop with the kids either. We hated, HATED Jordan in the late 80′s/early 90′s. By 1996 the Gund was overloaded with kids and adults wearing Chicago Bull #23 jerseys and going wild for the rockstar Bulls like everyone else around the country. One day you will see #6 Miami jerseys at the Q, and LOTS of them. It wont happen this season, and will likely be a gradual thing, but it WILL happen.
Remember all the bandwagon Red Sox fans who infiltrated the Jake these past few seasons? Sadly, once you get past the Browns, Cleveland is a fair weather sports town. We worship the Browns no matter what. The Indians and Cavs? Ehhh, we love em when theyre winning and sometimes even when theyre winning we dont care (see 2005 and 2007 attendance figures for the Tribe).
15-20 years from now Gilbert will be long gone. I want to believe that he will make his bold guarantee come true. But I just dont see how. Odds are that LeBron is the best player who will ever play for this team. Unless another phenom comes along and the ping pong balls bounce our way…again, but we probably have a better chance of being struck by lighting.
Whoever owns the Cavs at that time will see an opportunity to make some quick, easy cash and invite LeBron back to the Q for a jersey retirement ceremony. Whether or not he accepts and shows up, I dont know. But they will play highlights of his time in Cleveland, his game winning shot against Orlando, all the dunks, the bullsh*t camera posing and all that nonsense. He will be celebrated as the hometown kid who got his start here and went on to bigger and better things in Miami. Hell, by then they might even retire his #6 as well. Adults and children alike will wear their LeBron jersey and cheer loudly. There might be one random guy whose still bitter and chooses to wear a #13 jersey to the ceremony. He will be the one guy in the background flipping the bird as LeBron raises his jersey to the rafters next to Price and Daughtery. Fox 8 will interview fans inside the Q, who will express their love for LeBron and say “Oh I was mad at him for leaving, but I got over it, hes our hometown boy and we love him”…..etc.
This may seem far fetched, but there is a better chance of this happening than the Cavs winning a title. I firmly believe this LeBron scenario is not a matter of if, but when. I mean this is Cleveland, were always supposed to lose and accept defeat in the end. Afterall this is the city who threw a parade for a team that LOST the World Series. We will retire LeBrons number as well, someday.
I can certainly see both sides of the argument, but I’m firmly in the ‘no’ category.
No. In my opinion, retiring a number requires more than fantastic statistics. There should be an element of love and favorable memories of the player who wore the number in consideration. It was rotten what this guy did, so no.
On the other hand, the Cavaliers should retire #11 upon Zydrunus’ return to The Q. That guy played his butt off and did everything this franchise asked of him. He’ll always be loved in Cleveland, despite the fact that he chose to seek a ring in his later years.
Unfortunately, I’ll he rooting against his efforts to win a championship as long as he’s playing with that guy.
You don’t retire a number (usually) when the guy’s still in the league, right?
If so, there’s a lot of time between now and when James retires. And who knows what’ll happen. Maybe he’ll be one of those “I want to finish my career here” guys. Or maybe after his stint in Miami is over, he’ll come back.
Or maybe he’ll keep being a giant jerkbag. Who knows. I won’t say its impossible that it’ll be retired here. Just not happening anytime soon.
Hey, I got an idea. Instead of retiring #23, why not give it to some 3rd string bench warmer? Or one of the ball boys?
I do like the photo Brendan chose for this article. Very unflattering. YAY!
Retiring a number comes down to one question: Did this player leave the team and its legacy in better condition than the found it?
I think the answer is glaringly obvious here.
Time and winning solve a lot, but I don’t think they solve this much. Not in Cleveland anyway. The more Lebron wins for someone else the more Cavs fans will feel cheated. Not many were happy for the ex-Browns players when the Ravens won the Superbowl. We just hated Modell even more.
The only way Lebron’s number is retired here is if he never wins a championship in his career, asks to come back here at a reduced price to finish his career and leads that team to a title.
So I guess it’s not impossible, but it’s highly unlikely.
At this point, The Miami Cheat have not played a single game together. But, assuming that this all goes as LeBron, Wade, and Bosh planned, the Championships won as a member of the Cheat will overshadow the greatness he showed for seven years here. The Atlanta Falcons will never retire Brett Favre’s number — the Packers may one day (in the distant future).
I am not the vindictive sort and Yes we are mad as Hello. But, I do not want to give LBJ any pleasure or satisfaction after he dumped on everyone in Ohio in front of a worldwide audience.
MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE TO RETIRE HIS NUMBER AFTER LBJ RETIRES FROM THE NBA.
I am not the vindictive sort and Yes we are mad as Hello. But, I do not want to give LBJ any pleasure or satisfaction after he dumped on everyone in Ohio in front of a worldwide audience.
MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE TO RETIRE HIS NUMBER AFTER LBJ RETIRES FROM THE NBA.
Nice to see my comments were deleted
I think that when Miami (and Z) come to Cleveland to play, we should retire Z’s number before the game (and not LeSelfish’s).
I don’t believe in being vendictive.
At the same time, what Lebron did was selfish, disrespecting Cleveland, Cavs fans, and the entire State of Ohio.
He could have acted in a way that served the Greatest Good by staying in Clev., and helping so many people in Ohio.
But he chose to do what his ego wanted.
I think that everything has been said about how he schemed to leave Cleveland 2 or 3 years ago, without being honest with the fans.
I just hope and pray the more of those details surface so that Lebron character can be exposed to the world.
He has some maturing and growing up to do.
And maybe we also do, as fans, by not putting so much importance on one athlete, who really still is a 25 year old kid.
@#34 “SxDx”: wow, that’s the most depressing thing I’ve heard all day.. save us from ourselves. I really hope this city and fanfare can somehow stay loyal..
I don’t think they should retire his number, but not for personal reasons. He played 7 great years but never won a title. The cavs were one of the best in league during his time here. But what about the Indians? Should they retire Omar’s number (yes they should, but probably won’t)? He played 10 season with the Tribe, lead them to some of the best years in team history and even played in a couple World Series. So should he or anyone else on those teams have their number retired?
All this ‘he did so much for the Cavs’ talk is a load of garbage and I was laughing when he kept mentioning all that he did for the team. He put us on the map and brought a lot of attention to the franchise. He never won a title and it’s widely believed that he quit during the playoffs in the year they were favored to come out of the East. He ultimately handicapped the Cav’s during this entire free agency process and single handedly set the franchise back 3-5 years and people will never forgive him for it. Nor should they. His number will be retired in Miami, and he’ll go into the hall as a member of the Heat. He’s as good as dead in Cleveland.
I have to go with yes… eventually. As in, when Gilbert no longer owns the team and the team is in a whole different generation after LeTraitor retires…. only then can you start to consider it.
No doubt #11 beats it to the rafters now though.
I think the sentiment that they shouldn’t retire his number strictly because he never won a title isn’t really valid. If that was the case the Cavs wouldn’t retire anybody’s number.
I do, however, think that he erased any chance of getting that honor by the way he left. For people writing “you can’t just forget the last seven years” I’d say you can’t remember the last seven years without remembering how they ended.
I’m not sure why retiring James’ number is even being discussed. This seems like something that should be discussed after he retires, or at least gets close to retirement. That being said, at this point, I would have to say no, just as I don’t think Orlando should retire Shaq’s number. No matter how great a player is, I think retiring numbers should be reserved for “franchise players”. By leaving, Lebron has decided not to be a franchise player for the Cavaliers. I would feel the same way regardless of what team a player plays for. If a player leaves during or before their prime through free agency, they give up the priviledge of having their number retired by the team they left. Simple as that.
That’s based on where things stand at this point. If, in a couple years, things don’t work out in Miami, and he demands a trade which somehow lands him back in Cleveland, and he then plays his heart out for several years in pursuit of a championship, this could change. But that’s a highly unlikely prospect. Also, if he wins several championships with the Heat and they retire his number, it will look pretty pathetic for Cleveland to retire it as well.
Im gonnna be a LeBron fan no matter waht and he is the greatest to ever play for the cavs and it will get retired when he is finished playing bball in mia so imm just sad i won;’t see him play here anymore but thats life…..
I think most people on here have it all wrong. We SHOULD retire LeBron’s number and hang his jersey in the rafters. This should be done during the first home game vs. the Heat so LeBron can be here to enjoy the moment. Cavs fans can rejoice as the scoreboard shoots flames and “accidentally” lights LeBron’s jersey on fire, burning it to ashes!!!
I’m in an interesting mindset right now with Lebron. Almost delusional and can’t believe it’s actually a reality and he’ll never wear #23 cavs again. I’m starting to say, I like the old LBJ. I’m also saying R.I.P. Lebron James 12/30/84 – 7/8/10. Because honestly a big piece of him and a little one of me died that day. To this article’s point, we can’t discount the past 7 years and what he did for the franchise. I don’t like the fact, that his big jerk move has caused the city to write him off FOREVER. Yes be mad! Unclassfully (sp) burn his stuff (your clothes), and yes stick your middle finger up to him for what he did. But we need to get over it, realize this is just sports, and be thankful for the 7 years he gave us. I was born and raised in Cleveland, moved south two when I was in my early 20s, and haven’t been in the midset the past 7 years the current city residents are in. However, I can’t write the man off forever because I like watching him play ball. It’s just going to suck to watch him in a different jersey. I think we should “have regard for human life” and raise his jersey in the rafters one day. Hell, he owns all the record books in Cleveland and does have the same number of championships as my favorite old school Cavs, Mark Price. No knock on Price, I wear #25 because of him. Keep the faith.
I think the Cavs should retire the number 23 jersey but not with James’ name on it and not hanging from the rafters. Bury it forever, never to be worn by another Cavs player again!
Allow LBJ just to be a foot note in the Cavs record books and not honored as a true Cavalier.
Let the Cavs waterboy wear #23 from now on. Or the guy who cleans the restrooms at The Q. It’ll be put to better use that way.
Why would the waterboy or janitor be disrespected like that?
Those are hard-working, barely appreciated souls without whom the NBA experience would not be nearly as nice.